Blogging Umineko Chiru DAWN – 35 – Welcome to the real When they Cry Theater

You STILL have not solved this riddle, reader-san? Sigh, and I’ve told you so many hints..

Without a doubt, If you want an EP to massive mindrape you then DAWN is for you.  It’s just that DAWN both amuse and piss you off on a higher plane level because of too many twisted developments in the tale that range from metaphoric to I don’t even ones. The level of mindrape level top tier that I could only picture Ryukishi doing it. Me? I’m just here to help you , on both departments, that is.


Huh, what is this? You’re probably thinking. Did I guess right? EP 6 DAWN blogging part will consist of two elements and have two goals which are basically the same : To assume and to enlighten. I can so much treat (especially this EP) extremely serious for so long. It was an OK EP however it had its awkward and dull moments which is why I’ll try to “liven things up” with my metaphorical deviation ramblings JAP is characterized for. There are times that may even seem like plain ranting but it really isn’t since that’d indicate I don’t approve of the author’s work. I doubt someone as I, that  has spent this amount of time on this mystery could seriously come to dislike it that much. That’s why I can criticize and “make fun” of it, because I understand this tale extremely well to the point I can take this liberties unlike others. This also applies to all past and future entries, okay? Also, it wouldn’t be Just as Planned if I wouldn’t be constantly screwing with your mind, right?

That being said, you’re free to skip to the “Let’s reason this out” section where I tear the mysteries to pieces if you’re looking for theories only. Still, I’d encourage the readers to not skip the Blogging section and read my thoughts OUT LOUD when I was reading the novel. I’m sure that same as my blogging, you’ll be able to find them most amusing. Let’s start.


“The Witch of Theatergoing”

“Oh, Bern. I love you. Everything you do is so twisted”. I have to agree with Lambda for a change, but I don’t mean it in the same way she does. This is truly insane.  A wedding? Ha! Similar to End of the Golden Witch we see the final scenes of the EP spoiling part of the fun. Battler is forced into a demented demon marriage to give the position of Game Master to Erika and with nobody to save him. The trappish demons Furfur and Zeppar are the priests of this insane wedding. Battler has lost.

Someone is imprisoned in a room recalling unwanted childhood memories over all and over of when the family conference was held. This room is no ordinary room and is more like a prison one that we hardly know that horrors it holds at this point. The door just won’t open. It’s a chain lock that doesn’t open.

Out of all people we could image in the story the story is about Ange. She who just woke up is in the company of her bodyguard Amakusa and they can be seen in a mysterious house waiting on someone. Ange doesn’t recall for a long time where she is and even who she is.. just exactly what happened and why is she here? Why doesn’t she remember?

Well, we wouldn’t know either, the story just started. Btw, does this EP have no OP added or something like that? I don’t think I accidentally skipped it. It just never popped up.

They’re welcomed by a mysterious woman named Hachijo Tohya and the game explains how Ange manages to contact her by noticing that her pen name “Itouikukuro Reigonmua” was a strange name, when she matched the Japanese syllables to numbers.  It also tells us that we can read it as 11019960576, which it is also equal to 18 to the eight power, in other words, ‘Tohya no Hachijo’ in Japanese. All I have to say here, Oh c’mon! Japanese again? It is truly frustrating how parts of the mystery still have to do with the Japanese language. I linked it to the standard English alphabet but it didn’t make much sense. Well, I’m glad I didn’t pay it much attention anyway. My other guess was that it was a phone number.

With her introduction as Hachijo Tohya the one behind the fake messages in a bottle that the 4th game speaks of, Hachijo Tohya claims that she has discovered the truth herself, that unlike other bottle forgers who apparently only write their own theories and interpretation of the mystery making them past as the real deal, Hachijo is dead certain that her ‘truth’ is the real one. That’s the reason why she has written many literary pieces (from Banquet till End of the Golden Witch) Anyway her attitude, the fact that she has ‘endlessly’ killed her family, and passes herself as her Maria onee-chan infuriates Ange greatly. Still Hachijo and Ange herself knows that she has come down here to hear the ‘truth’ that this mysterious person named Hachijo has reached. What a damn tease, does it remind you of someone?

While Hachijo was talking Ange’s mind once again goes hazy recalling parts of the 4th Game in her journey to Rokkenjima. She recalls that she tried to contact the publisher to contact this mysterious author. Ange realizes that she never met any person by the name of Hachijo at all. The more she recalls, the clearer it becomes that this impossible memory of something that never happened before. That very fact that she could be able to met her would seem like a miracle to her. Ange feeling more certain of what’s really going on openly tells Hachijo to put an end to this farce and asks her who is she really. Looking old Hanyu I’d say.

clearly this game needs moar older people

Ange is right and when she mentions Hachijo reeks of Witch. No longer her figure can be seen and instead there’s an image of a Witch with horns -like on her head is seen rocking on her chair – the name is“Witch of Theatergoing, Drama, and Spectating” Augustus Aurora Featherine. Such as long-ass name that she’s just called Featherine by Ange. Battlers’ sis who has already realized that she is in another Witch game and that it was expected that she wouldn’t be let go so easily even after death by them, questions Featherine of what they’ll have her do. Of course, everything is for her Onii-chan. I think I’d like Ange more if she’d move on from that phase, but I guess that’s asking too much of her character.

In actuality, Ange’s situation is different than it previously was, Featherine proposes Ange a deal of being her Reader and Miko by reading out the new tale woven, that is Dawn of the Golden Witch. Being as unfriendly as usual Ange initially refuses the request but quickly grows interested once she learns that Battler is the new game Master of the story (all of people!) of this game which has kept going after she was killed by the witches. Upon accepting the Witch of Theatergoing’s request, Ange is given protection by Featherine swearing that no harm will fall on Ange while she works under her and bring calamity to anyone who hinders her task as Reader. Wouldn’t that mean she’d be abandoned after her job was done? What exactly is supposed to happen to Meta Ange after this?

It is then than Ange is giving the position of her personal miko. It just illogical that Ange isn’t wearing a proper miko attire. Clearly, Featherine does not really respect protocols. From this evidence we can gather that this Witch is up to no good. Foreshadowing, I tell you. Also Ryukishi-san, don’t be lazy on this important issue.

“I thought I told you to say in your room”

“Game Master”

Battler, I had no idea you were into that. Also that cape makes you cooler than you really are.

The Witches can be seen relaxing on Beatrice’s tea room waiting for Battler to appear and start the sixth game. I also had my tea and wine ready with me at all times to go with the atmosphere. No, I’m serious about that.

Lambdadelta is also there, as usual close to Bernkastel lesbianizing one another. Bern can be seen in high spirits (that’s considered high?) eagerly expecting her final revenge to be carried out soon by her piece Furudo Erika. Another hilarious moment appears when they emphasize how Bernkastel made so many faces in the past game (which I have to totally agree) that she might get wrinkles for it. Their idle talk stops when a strange Beatrice appears before them. This person resembling Beatrice ignores or rather is unable to feel the atmosphere and all the nasty remarks being made by the witches at all, almost like it is a total different person.

Golden butterflies gather and a certain red-headed objection fanatic Ushiromiya appear before the witches. It’s BATORA, but this time he has a CAPE meaning that he mastered everything that game has to offer. But to completely master a game you have to beat it in all different difficulty levels. Someone has to tell Battler that! This is why you get trolled so often, bro.

Weird Beatrice starts spouting more weird things calling Battler ‘Master’ and ‘Father’ which seriously gave me the creeps. Just what the furniture is that supposed to mean?  Bernkastel’s group are dumbfounded as I was, thinking that this surely is another strategy to throw them off like the Sun North and Wind strategy. Battler acts like “there’s nothing to see here, guys!” and asks them to ignore whatever they heard. Well, this was a Cannot Unsee moment if you ask me.

Battler says he’s all done and that his new game as the one who mastered all mysteries from Beatrice’s game will prove to them that he is not to be messed with. After being complimented by Erika that at least his title is GOOD. The sixth game Dawn of the Golden Witch starts. Oh, silly Battler. You don’t know what awaits you yet.

Back to Ange and Aurora who I’ll start to abbreviate into “AA” everyone now and then. Cleary seeing Beatrice acting all love-dovey and all NICE without any faking is as shocking as finding out that this EP is about the least interesting characters of the story. Ange is confused of what is wrong with this Beatrice as so I am. Featherine explains that as we know Beatrice we know was killed in the last game therefore this isn’t Beatrice per se. So what exactly is death in this world?

There are two types of death – the first one is the death of a piece meaning when you die in the game board in one of the many Witch games. The piece is killed but the person can be revived over and over without fearing of ever breaking it explaining why the Witches are so ruthless. The second type is death by the player, meaning that the player itself dies (assumes outside the game board) so it’s impossible to be revived because that person is no longer within the bounds of the game board. Instead of giving us a more concrete example of it the game uses Maria to explain that the ‘player’ Maria can also die when she stops believing in Magic meaning when UU Maria finally grows the hell up thus that ‘old’ Maria from the game will cease to exist. Also they mention Sakutaro and how he couldn’t be revive because he had a vessel and that vessel was destroyed.

Ange : goddammit. Stop child of man’ing me.

Speaking of which, they didn’t give Sakutaro a ‘character’ section on this game even though he makes a quick appearance here.. Featherine also mentions it to Ange that it was Super Paper who showed some generosity upon seeing Battler show such great determination when she saw that Battler understood Beatrice’s game and was burning with desire to push on. Of course, to Ange it was only a Witch’s fickleness to remain entertained. Ange might not be that wrong but I still have to give it to Lambdadelta for keeping the game going. What, I’m actually liking Lambda now? I thought she was just here for the massive lulz. Ok, we all knew that wasn’t the case, right?

That Beato’ has no chance of reviving the Witch of Doorama says, however, that doesn’t’ mean that it is impossible for “Beato’ to be born again. Heh, I see, we’re playing with words again. What she means it’s that although that Beatrice know has certainly been killed it is possible for a new Beatrice to be born and that Beatrice may someday turn into the old Beatrice. As it was revealed by Bernkastel, Beatrice is an “incarnation of the rules” (make sure to remember that term) therefore in the same way Beatrice may be able to be come back again.

Ange knows that there was some obvious ‘antagonism between Beatrice and Battler’ as we seen in the 4th game, btw Ange has been reading all the games she missed and is well-informed of what happened and what didn’t. God, is there no privacy in this game or what?

Battler and his CAPE are in Kinzo’s study which has become his new hangout place in the magical world. Battler asks GENJI what he thinks of the game he created, according to Genji he says that it’s a great game. Well, he’s a servant, of course, he can’t say it’s not so awesome as he thinks it is. I’ll give you a C since it’s your first time, bro. Add more of your aunts to the story and I’ll give you a “B”. Work more on the mystery and I’ll see what I can do.

Battler buys that his game is perfect and calls it a day. He inquires Genji about Beatrice’s situation and we learn that sleeping Beauty just woke up 3 days ago but they didn’t tell Battler because he was busy preparing the 6th game.  Back to AA, Ange has no idea what to make of the hate that Beatrice has for Battler since ‘according to the tale, it was denied by the red truth, “Six years ago, no person called Beatrice existed for Battler’ so where is this antagonism coming from?

Ange mentions how exaggerated Beato’s reaction was as surely there was no way her ONII-CHAN would do something so horrible to deserve such response from anyone. They start connecting the dots and they come to a conclusion that if we assume that it was ‘because of Battler’ sin’ and that Beatrice was created because of it then it is as though Beatrice was Battler’s piece. Meaning that in a way that Battler is killing everyone. But here is the thing, if Beatrice is such a horrible person then why is Battler acting so friendly towards her now, huh. What exactly did he find that at the end of his journey for the truth? If only a tiny bit of this was explained I could understand Battler better, otherwise he’s just acting foolish to me. I don’t think I’d take being killed over and over very nicely.

Back to Battler’s Batman Lair. Holy magical problems! Battler goes to meet Beatrice and he finds her but Battler is quickly creeped out by her so un-Beatrice speech. It only makes things when Beatrice says that “Beatrice (she) was born for your sake”. Battler freaks out because the story is seriously turning into something weird, no, because it’s because he can’t revive the old Beatrice like he thought he could with is powers. Hey, isn’t this the same as Kinzo? You know, without a creepy (very) old guy being in love with a young woman.

Once again back to AA but this time back to the human counterparts, Hachijo Tohya is still talking with Ange but nothing about her being a witch is actually mentioned in that world. Hachijo is still looking down and going on about how Crappy her regular readers are and how actual readers are as an endangered species. Well, I never thought I’d be glad to a minority.

Ange defends the Readers, as reader herself, and tells Hachijo to not underestimate the readers, “They aren’t just reading. They read.. and They think.”  Featherine makes the claim that it’s possible for anyone who knows the truth to become an Endless Witch. Interesting way to look at it. What would that make me?

Battler is in his world of delusions reminiscing and acting as though old Beatroll was there but the situation is very different. That ‘chick Beato’ is not the 1000 old witch that he knew and expecting the new one to behave as the old one is not possible. Whatever will be of Beatrice?

Frankly, I’m in for the Shannon X Kanon route instead

“True Feelings”

It’s the day of the family conference and everyone is as busy as ever probably revising the plan to kill everyone. Natsuhi is revising her plan so no one will learn that Kinzo is gone, meanwhile Krauss has a tummy ache. Oh! Shannon and Kanon are checking that everything is ok on the guest house and nothing is missing. As usual Kanon scolds Shannon for her clumsiness when it comes to this type of things. The discussion takes a different turn when Shannon starts with ‘let’s have a chat’ statement. That usually can’t be good, even outside of the game board.

Everything starts with Shannon pushing Kanon onto the bed and being dominant when it comes to the affair of love. That sounded strangely weird. Ok, Shannon keeps talking about George and her soon engagement to him, everything while giggling all the way. Meanwhile, Kanon accuses Shannon that she’s only been ‘tricking’ George and that she hasn’t had the courage to openly tell him that she’s ‘furniture’ etc etc. What’s that supposed to mean? Are we supposed to assume they’re some life human size Rozen Maidens or something? I bet both Kanon and Shanon share a Rosa mysticae then.

As you can see this is totally illogical.

Shannon’s comeback is that they’re only furniture because they ‘think’ they are more than anything, which is similar to my theory that it’s a state of mind rather than an actual “condition”.  Kanon is still not giving in to Shannon’s 2:00 p.m soap opera but after hearing something about Shanon knowing everything about him since she’s his Big Sis, Kanon finally breaks and confess that he is in love with Jessica. The truth is that Jessica is TOO DAZZLING! (in his own words) for him and that’s why it was so difficult for him to accept his feelings. Kanon stops being furniture he’s been for most of the past Episodes. Shannon mentions that once she engages and all that she’ll leave the island and never come back (not even to visit?) and forget all about Kanon. Well, what a bitc.. becoming twist.

Kanon knows that this means that it’s the time to ‘settle things between them” once and all for all. They both know that their own selfishness might keep one another from their happiness, however, they both must pursue and fight for their happiness at the same time. They go like Optimus Prime “one shall stand, one shall fall” closing this with an  open declaration of war saying that “they’re not furniture” anymore.

Yeah, you guys aren’t suspicious in the bit..

Kanon and smiling. They do not go well

This ‘new’ Kanon goes to greet the guests at the port. Everyone takes notice that Kanon is in high spirits today and they all comment on it. Kanon is simply shocked (when he asks Kumasawa about it) that it was the change was so obvious, perhaps like he mentions his past emo self was so obvious that this ‘slightly’ in higher spirits Kanon seem cheerful in comparison. What a total change. On their way back, Kanon meets Jessica in the rose garden. Kanon soon starts pouring his feelings about how dazzling Jessica is and ends up confessing that he likes her. Long story short Kanon tells Jessica how pathetic  he’s been and they tell each other how DAZZLING both of them are. Jessica wants them to have more normal relationship and wants Kanon to call her by her name, the same way she’ll do for him whose real name as we know is Yoshiya.

I think Kanon has a better ring to it and so does Shannon but it’s not like they’re asking.

Someone has been spying on this scene.. it’s not other than Chick Beatrice who has been turned into a sentimental weeping machine. Beatrice tries to make sense of the situation of them and compare it to why her ‘Father’ gets angry whenever she calls him that. At least, chick Beatrice is aware that she is not what Batttler asked for.

Ange is feeling overemotional to and starts pitying Beato which Featherine shares the same impression as me. Shocking. But Ange knows that it wouldn’t be fair to blame this Beatrice for what Beato did since they aren’t exactly the same. Beatrice’s character has been made from many and many experiences and the old and new Beatrice can’t be same. Ange mentions something we all (I would think) doubted since the game started – this  ‘1000 years old’ witch deal which is something hard to believe and seems more like a metaphor for a long time. As explained by Featherine we can interpret this as a very long time or when one is closer to the higher beings time and space aren’t measure the same way.

I seriously hope you didn’t actually believe that all the witches have lived for that long.

Kumasawa appear and tries to comfort chick Beatrice but it’s clear that by herself she can’t exactly help her. Beatrice feels as powerless and as useless knowing that she is no good after all because like she says, “I was born for Father’s sake. So I want to become the Golden Witch Beatrice that Father desires.” Kumasawa upon hearing Beatrice’s words, changes into her tutor of the past Virgilia to help her out once again. Meanwhile, Featherine has agreed to allow Beatrice into her realm and gives her access to the archives of the past games in order for Beatrice to learn more about the person she used to be. Featherine’s miko, Ange, who is now in charge of things gives Beatrice’s protection in her journey to find herself. One of the many trials Beatrice must undergo is solving the epitaph’s riddle to become Beatrice.

It’s getting late, there’s a storm is coming Rokkenjima and with it is brings Bernkastel’s piece Furudo Erika followed by a  mandatory <GOOD> while laughing and coughing , indicating that the curtains to the mystery are about to being in the sixth game.

Time to get the game going. Next time in Umineko.. They’ll talk about cheese. I’m not kidding. More importantly, there’ll be some Erika.

Let’s Reason this OUT


Hachijo Tohya as the Writer – After Beatrice turning into an emotional machine, the biggest shock is Hachijo Tohya revealing that she is author behind the following tales of Umineko. She claims that she made those tales after the 1st bottle (supposedly what really happened in Rokkenjima) and she found the “truth” to the story. As a result, Hachijo made the tales we know from 2nd and so on.

Let’s look at it this way. We have quirky writer’s intent to “enlighten” and reach those 20/100 readers and give them extra hints so they can find the truth for themselves. If Hachijo made the following tales BASED only the 1st Tale it’d mean that the “truth” she found (assuming she had and read only 1 bottle) was obtained only with the clues of the 1st EP. We could say this is still strange because the following tales depict certain characters as possible culprits and deal with other parts of the story that aren’t close to the 1st one. Of course, this is probably to keep the true culprit hidden like any mystery novel.

We can say that the following stories sprang out of the 1st tale information and the story was formed after we are introduced to premise that will hold the next tales. Assuming the author intent (Hachijo) is to give more clues to what the answer is, means that throughout all EPS preserves a certain “pattern” that should be related to the real “truth” she wants the reader to find. “Love”? I don’t see this Hachijo person doing that.

Furniture’s situation – This completely didn’t make any logical sense. Never mind, it did, but once both go extreme as to say something like their lives (happiness) will end if X thing were or not to happen is totally irrational. I’ll attempt to explains things rationally without the existence of magic.

I’ll explain Kanon’s situation logically what way I see. Kanon is a total mess and has no chance of making it in the real world without someone there to support him because simply there’s no real meaning to his life. Shanon’s “I’m leaving you” sounds like (practically it is) an ultimatum that she’ll leave Kanon alone forever as she’ll never return to Rokkenjima after she goes with George. Basically, because Kanon will be alone thus “he won’t ever change” , his life will be a mess and he’ll die or kill himself eventually. I’d say it’s likely for him as I mention in my Are there even suicides cases in Umineko? post. Shannon knows that she can’t bear that burden for all her life to take care of him since she has plans of her own and she decides to pressure “her little brother” into confessing his love for Jessica, thus the responsibility rests on Jessica rather than on her and at the same time Kanon will be happy on his own. This makes sense to me.

Shannon’s situation is hard to explain because it sounds the less logical of all. There is no real reason why both “Love pairs couldn’t be happy”  and why one pair must be doom in this tale as result. It’s not like this is a “love triangle” or that Shannon and Kanon are only ONE person, right? This is not what the Game practically tells you, right? Let’s see. What exactly could happen anyway as a result of one of them being happy?

Let’s think a bit. If Kanon and Jessica made their relationship obvious to everyone then the family (I mean Natsuhi mostly) would try to break them up without a doubt. Probably both of them would leave the island if necessary and never see them again. Probably by now Eva would’ve taken notice of this and guard up so it doesn’t happen the same to George. Not to mention that with Jessica out of picture George would be taking her position as head. That’s about it. One side wouldn’t let the same thing happen to their children. A day or two or when they make their relationships known doesn’t make much of a difference. Those days they stayed in Rokkenjima shouldn’t affect the outcome for both pairs unless we’re blowing things out of proportion. Shannon’s reaction seems the most exaggerated of all. She talks as if they’d be forced to go against one another and kill themselves so the other could be happy.

Logically, her “exaggeration” would be view as encouragement on her part so Kanon would make a decision once and for all, however, the rest of the things she mentions about being forced to go against the other’s throats comes out of nowhere. One’s action should not affect the other one unless their objectives are the same, then it’d make sense that they’d collide as result. Believing that the brooch can bring love is utterly ridiculous. This is something I can’t believe in unless we refer to this brooch as simply a “mean” for the lovers to be brought together but not a definite factor.

As you can see, everything starts to fall off after Shannon starts with her rambling about only one of them can be happy. It is then when things get complicated.

Magic characters representation – everyone must’ve made the connection between Ronove and Genji and Kumasawa and Virgilia. There’s this blatant switching between one to the other in Dawn that I didn’t think they’d do it so openly. We also saw it on EP3 when Virgilia first appears and she takes the form of Kumasawa but because of the whole “North Sun wind” strategy this was a bit lost. Genji and Ronove relationship is similar but their relationship is mentioned as something like a “little brother”.  But here is the thing.

Genji serves Battler in the magic world. Logically, neither Kumasawa or Genji should even be let on the meta world unless it was Court of Illusions trial, however they are there. Yet we see them.  Let’s analyze this. When Beatrice was in charge of the Game board everyone looked like Witches, demons and furniture, however when Battler is in charge they don’t show up a whole lot (if any). Why exactly do you think this is? Because this is not the way how Battler sees those around him. See, he has a different perception than Beatrice has, therefore, his “perception” of the game board and his current “reality” are both different.

I’m sure Battler by now gets along fine with Beatrice’s furniture so there would be no reason why he would not let them come to play to his new shiny game. You see, Battler’s view of a loyal servant is Genji and of a fun and reliable maid servant is Kumasawa. This is contrasted with Beatrice’s view which is clearly different from his. Human Battler is more familiar, or rather he ASSOCIATES these positions/roles to the people he KNOWS, therefore Ronove’s butler position and also as Kinzo’s right hand after becoming the new “head”  IS associated with Genji. The same applies to Kumasawa for Battler. Shanno isn’t included because she is already represented as one of the new Demons in the story in case you were wondering why Battler (or the author) didn’t pick her.

In my opinion, this has to do with a very very long speculation about Beatrice and what exactly she is “supposed to be” and how this “magic” world, no, rather how her own game board operates. I mentioned a long time ago about this. Beatrice’s furniture possibly SYMBOLIZE people from her previous life as a human. A close best friend as feisty as her such as Gaap, a fun servant she never had at her strict household such as Ronove,  an ideal mother-like figure and at the same time teacher such as Virgilia, the stakes as friends to keep thing alive to keep her entertained when she was alone.

All of Beatrice’s furniture symbolize somebody that Beatrice either knew before or they fill roles of friends/etc Beatrice may or may have never had as this was wishful thinking or an idealized version of somebody’s life. I think Battler’s claim of how “alone” Beatrice was in reality when she brought all those demons to come play makes it seem like the Game master (in this case Beatrice) acted as puppeteer would the whole time. You do know how it works, right? They don’t move unless you control them.

Battler controlling this old illusion of Beatrice is disturbing because he is playing, basically desperately trying to “amuse” himself with this delusion. What would happen if he’d keep playing like this? Would a made up “world” be created as a result? Therefore, it’s possible to once again make my claim thanks to EP 6 “magic beings don’t really exist” outside the catbox or even in the magic realm. They are figments of one’s imagination. Disturbing, isn’t it? Ah, looks like I just denied everyone’s existence with this move. I suppose I shouldn’t have said that. *giggle*giggle* Oh, please do forget about what I just said, okay?

Kanon/Shannon reaction – I think I found how they changed from being normal furniture to rebels a bit rushed. Still, I wouldn’t want it to drag for so long taking in consideration they practically take the whole EP to themselves so I suppose it’s all good. A couple of things here. For starters, I didn’t know Shannon already KNEW that George was going to propose on that day. It always seemed like she was shocked but not exactly expecting it. EP1 made it seem like Shannon never thought that this could happen so we assume she really didn’t know, what EP6 tells us is that Shannon ALREADY had a pretty good idea what George was going to do on that day. She had prepared herself for that day already, unlike Kanon who was just informed by Shannon that he could also be happy.

What I think is this. Why did exactly Kanon change so suddenly? Well, let’s ignore that “it’s because of the premise of Dawn” obvious answer and think of it a bit longer. Kanon decides to change because he received an ultimatum from Shannon who was going to leave the island NO MATTER WHAT so Kanon was going to be left alone no matter what. The only way to prevent her from going was going to be preventing George of proposing to her so Kanon could continue having that life he enjoys. Kanon killing the others (precisely George) would be accordance with his wish to keep living the same life with Shannon, however, I’m sure that Shannon would be too miserable to be herself ever again. Kanon’s change is only created once he realizes he is in love with Jessica as a result that Shannon was already gone (killed) or was going to leave him.

So, are we to assume that Shannon either never told him or that she never went that far when telling Kanon about George’s plans for that day? That seems to be the case.

The Impossible memory – I mentioned in my Dawn review that this is an extremely rare case where magic interfere with the human world. This has to do with a complicated real/meta/fictional world almost like time traveling that it’s too complex to decipher. One is that Ange from the future didn’t go anywhere, her meta part was simply controlled in a way that made her believe that she was still alive by retrieving her old memories and granting one of her wishes. Therefore, this “human world” in which Ange goes to visit Hachijo doesn’t actually exist and this was done for the sake of meeting with Featherine. As you can see, this puts greater importance on meta Anger than human Ange since we are assuming that there is only ONE Ange. The human world matters not from this perspective as “this” Ange will die or isn’t supposed to have that meeting anyway.

The other one is that magic WAS indeed able to mess with one of the many kakeras. Featherine is mentioned as being way more powerful than all the witches we know. So unlike Bernkastel who could only mess with them so much she couldn’t distort reality that much, only screw things up for people and “setting them up”. The impossible memory talks of moving a character between fragments (Ange does recall things from her OTHER self) like going back on time or putting them on a different kakera all together. Yet the end, and possibly all other fragments, are the same for her. Ange meets the same fate of Rokkenjima even if she was to meet or not this odd author who claims to know the truth. It’d probably make no difference for her after she was killed because she’d be forced to “reset” this 12 years time period of being all alone all over all. Magic can mess with the fragment as long as the result is always the same. Ange could be repeating this same trip over and over with a few changes but basically ending with the same thing. Similar to her family Ange would be trapped in a similar never-ending tragedy.

Featherine the Witch – I wonder where could possibly Virgilia know Featherine from? Virgilia didn’t seem aware of that Featherine was probably another Bernkastel in disguise. That’d mean that she wasn’t like that when she first met her or that Virgilia chose to ignore this fact to help Beatrice. I have no idea how old Featherine is and what exactly she is. Featherine calling everyone “child of man” (even Bernkastel) makes her sound like her origins and existence are so different than of humans that she isn’t one. All Witches for what I gather used to be humans a long time ago and even though we could say that they are no longer humans they used to have the same origins. We could say that she has lived so much longer than all Witches that she could no longer be considered of human origins. That’s just stretching things a bit from her part but it’d still apply. Or B, Or that Featherine is of a completely different origin like a real God would. This is all speculation, of course.

1000th year old – and probably even more. For this we’d have understand the nature of Witches and whether we believed in them at least on a small level. What do you think? That a made-up being with half-existence can exist? Just because something has been there but never has been discovered does it mean it didn’t exist before that? Certainly, they existed way before they were found but since no one knew of their “existence”, to us they just begin to exist that moment they are found. Following this idea if none of us have ever seen a Witch does it mean they don’t exist? Unless you are able to believe in something you haven’t been shown proof of then you could believe in it. However, for the rest such irrational entity can’t possibly exist because it isn’t scientifically proven. Then a Witch whose origins are unknown and whose existence can’t be 100% proven but instead are questioned over and over it’s simply impossible to “acknowledge” their own existence. The moment you believe in them and acknowledge them then they are certainly “real” to you.

I think they nailed it pretty well and take this “1000 old” business as simply a metaphor. They said that Beatrice could’ve been born after she met Battler and he sinned, thus the “Witch” was created. Of course, that simple claim would make her less than 1000 years old, implying that Beatrice is lying about her origins. The game even mentions how Beatrice has “19 years” old at some point later so I assume that after 19 years had passed her life as a human ended and she became a Witch. To be a hundred something old she’d have to have lived back in 1800’s. That.. is something I never bought.

For characters such as the Voyagers witches and now Featherine who are mentioned to be older than any Witch in the game right now is impossible to know how old they really are. Why? For one we don’t know their origins and when their lives as Witches started which could’ve been only 20 or 50 years ago or hundreds like they claim. Two they do not have the share the same perception of time and space that humans do. They mention in the game how a few days (or even hours) could be months or years to a Witch considering how they spent that time. Lambda claims in an EP mentions how the Romans prayed to her for victory or something like that. That’d make Lambda’s age to be B.C. and Featherine’s age would be as old as earth itself. This could mean exactly that. That they are right and they’ve lived hundreds of years. Or a simple way of telling you that they none of them have actually lived THAT long and that same as their existence; they are full of lies and delusions of grandeur to hide their pitiful real forms. Leading us to once again deny their existence. Hey, aren’t some of you just playing make-belief, dear Witches? Oops, once again. Pay no attention to THAT! I’m probably wrong everyone, riiiiight?

Beatrice as the “incarnation of the rules” – This is basically the same thing I just said. Beatrice’s “character” was formed as a result of all “hints” in the 1st Game. She makes her grand entrance by the end of the 1st Game after her character was materialized (I mean it mostly metaphorically) after all hints of the story and when basically almost everyone believes she is responsible for all killings because “a witch could’ve only done it”. What I mean is that everything in the EP, all this spooky stores, and crimes that could’ve only been committed by a witch make Beatrice “real”. Before that what exactly was Beatrice? For all we know she might’ve not existed at all. Or if she did, she wasn’t the “Golden Witch” she presents herself as.

This character she plays as is the Golden Witch of Rokkenjima but that doesn’t mean that real Beatrice and this Witch Beatrice are the same. Beatrice, a Witch, is born as a result of the rules. She is born after premise of the story, the hints and these strange stories that give life and make room for a Witch to exist in a closed circle. As a result a Witch serves as a cover-up for a criminal committing a seemly perfect crime to exist at the same time. Or is it the other way around?

The World is one huge Cat Box – this serves to give the Witch’s stories and the mysterious “resets”  an equivalent in the logical human world. Hachijo made those stories because she knew what happened in the 1st tale and this is her way to giving more clues and wanting the readers to dive deeper into the mystery. Looking at it from the inside the “closed circle” Beatrice’s magic and killing are real because they never find the truth or what is happening outside in the world. From everyone’s else view, this is not the case. We are not on Rokkenjima on that day, therefore, these “truths” do not apply to us. We cannot accept a witch or magic exist. We are not affected by it as the people on Rokkenjima are, thus time does not stop for us. It keeps going. We are outside of the cat box. Not inside of it. Same is for Ange from the future who was left alone because her family never came back. She doesn’t know the truth thus all this time reset and magic acts may seem impossible. There was only one killing on October 4th-5th.

For the same reason that we aren’t inside the Cat box and aren’t affected by it, we don’t know what is going on INSIDE of it. There might be time reset inside of it and people dying over and over again, however, we’d never know about it because we cannot enter the box. Only when it is finally open we’ll be able to know the truth as this was a game of choosing a Red Box and Blue Box. That’s where Hachijo comes in to make sense of Beatrice’s time resets and the multiple killings and make it seem like a fictional world because that’s what logically is supposed to be to everyone outside of the cat box. This begs the question, does magic really exist? What do you think of all of this, everyone?

Game Master thoughts

Here is the Game master talk section where I explain a few things that I didn’t cover in either the blogging or the analysis part and mostly about where I’m going with this. Also what I may cover next in JAP or in Tea Party more or less. It’s strongly encourage that you read EP 6 DAWN review that I made, to understand the whole point of this, otherwise, you’ll have trouble understanding it and may still feel lost. Also it saves a lot of time for everyone.

– Compared to the 5th Game blogging where I didn’t know what was going to happen next, in this 6th Game I finished the game before deciding to blog it meaning that the experience is obviously different. I already know the complete 6th Game and I reached yet another “truth” of the multiple ones I’ve reach throughout this game. Unlike past games DAWN is extremely different (and weirder) as it doesn’t exactly pose a level of difficult on the killing mystery part, instead we are to supposed to make sense of the overall situation and what the game is trying to tell us this time. Btw, I’m fine with talking about “future” events in the story since I already knew what’s up, however, keep in my mind that it’s not always possible to totally explain a few things before I had already explain why I think so. For that you’d have to listen a lengthy string of theories what might become lost if I always skip too often.

– episode 34 is a LIE. Nah, I’ll just switch it to a lengthy review of the 5th Game instead when the time comes. Everyone already knows what happens, right? I think I’m still a bit worn-out after Dawn review so it’d might take a while. As for how this DAWN Blogging will be, I think I’ll try to keep them once a week on either Friday, Saturday or Sunday. Why do you think that’s so? I think that’s very easy to guess. I’d be disappointed if you couldn’t guess. In case I don’t release an episodic of DAWN for that week it means I’m still working on it and I’ll probably post it the following week. I’m sure you wouldn’t want to see a third-rate analysis anyway, right? There’s Tea Party if you’re feeling impatient.

– Like I mentioned multiple times, I’ll try to tackle the mystery as humanly logical as possible making sense of all mysteries and situations. I’ll tell you my thoughts on certain parts of the story how I interpret them. I think I cover each part of the game well and I’m very thorough on my analysis, however, there could be still points that I don’t mention or that you may have doubts about so don’t be shy about asking I’m sure I or other people can answer those questions for you. Check Dawn review first just in case. What you’re asking may have been already answered there.

I’m open to answer whatever questions arise in the mystery as I go along and proceed to say how I interpret it what I believe the author’s intent was. Your reasoning is different from mine and my reasoning is different from yours, so we can’t exactly reach the same conclusions. One could be closer to the truth than the other. But that’s the fun part, right?

However, I’m here to prove that the “truths” I’ve reached are the correct ones and the my white text can become as good as red. The question as usual is how much you actually believe in them or wish to challenge them.  Are you a 75/100, 50/100 or a 20/100 out of the many Readers out there that Ryukishi talks about? What will it be? At any rate, let us have once again an elegant and most intellectual game.

– Keikakudoori


8 thoughts on “Blogging Umineko Chiru DAWN – 35 – Welcome to the real When they Cry Theater

  1. The furniture’s situation doesn’t really make any sense. As much as I hate this theory, I don’t see any other way to explain it other than they’re two personalities in the same body.

    • There’s a really disturbing part here when they are in the guest house and Shannon tells Kanon that she knows “everything about him”. Who would know everything about you? Also there’s this “deceiving” George part Kanon scolds Shanon for and not being able to “keep fooling” him or something like that.

      The absurd SKanon/SKtrice theory that originated for fun is turning out into something not so absurd. I also dislike that theory because it’s plain absurd. Still, isn’t easy to dismiss what Dawn practically throws in our faces over and over. Shannon/Kanon’s situation and why they must “battle to the death” each other and why they can’t be happy on their own isn’t rational at all.

  2. Alternate theory that’s been going around – Shannon is Beatrice, of course. Kanon and Shannon are rivals for a special heir title related to Beatrice (from Kinzo himself, of course), and marriage is impossible without this title. Kanon gets fired and kicked off the island if he tries without it and, for Shannon, George is forced to marry Ayumi instead, and she decides to stay on the island for the rest of her life rather than try to go above her status ever again.

    A few hints for this: Kinzo preferring Kanon and Shannon, something Featherbutt says about “Love being very different from marriage” as she thinks of her own answer (how else do you explain this? Winning a battle doesn’t give you a sex change), and the fact that they’re fighting over a brooch (headship ring?).

    If Battler finds the gold, he becomes the heir, and the determination becomes unnecessary – because he’s the one calling the shots – and both can get married just fine. I actually can’t find a purpose for Battler finding the gold with Shkanontrice.

    It’s also a potential motive for George being the mastermind – he was told about the whole thing, after all. (only gives him a motive to kill Kanon and maybe Jessica, of course, but it’s a base at least)

    • The furniture fighting over the brooch is indeed similar to the siblings fighting over the headship. I’m glad people already took notice of this.

      That’s an interesting theory. I’ll tell you why I agree and disagree with it. What I agree with is the part about Battler being the head solves many problems for many characters. For example, Battler would definitely give their shares to the siblings and the furniture/cousins would be able to do as they please. I think the popular belief that there are “people” who would want and would gain from Battler becoming the new head is extremely possible. If the killer wants Battler to survive then it’d make more sense why he is always killed last. This way it’d make more sense why the furniture are so eager on making everyone believe there’s this witch “Beatrice” going around killing people. Normal people don’t accept this belief but the furniture is always willing to attribute all crimes to a magic entity which is something that never clicks right.

      What I don’t agree with this theory is the part about the furniture being prevented from getting happiness because of something like a title or something similar. To me the furniture condition has always been treated as a “state of mind” I’d say almost pathological that stops them from getting happiness. We could interpret it as an illness or a vow they made. Dawn mentions (and in past games too) that being furniture isn’t the same as humans, like it is actually a “physical condition” that makes them different than normal humans even though they look so similar. Something like we could “tell” they aren’t humans if we inspect them more or less. Here is the part I mention where Kanon says to Shannon how she’s been deceiving George for so long and that he’ll “find out” eventually, implying there’s something different/”wrong” with Shannon.

      The major issue here is what really forces furniture to act in such radical ways when they could still just leave on their own and the problem would be solved, well eventually anyway. Neither George nor Jessica has interest in becoming the next head so it’s not like they can’t just leave either same as the furniture to go have a happy life. Having to kill one another is still an exaggeration on their part unless there’s even a greater reason for it, for example that it is just simply physically “impossible” for those two loves to co-exist in this world.

  3. As always a nice read to reflect on my own view of the story.

    But this time I guess its time for a little critic as I think their are a few hip-ups in your made assumption which may have some minor or major consequences for your deductions in here and also later reasoning. Sorry to play the mean guy here but you always said to want discussion over your analysis so I guess I point those points alongside my other opinions about your picked topic for reasoning.

    The first thing I was really irritated by was your interpretation of the authorship stuff. Who didn’t you get the idea that only the content of EP1 wasn’t from Featherinne? I’m quite confident she never claim authorship for TURN in her parts of the story and even if my memory is a bit fuzzy about this (and I’m to lazy to reread the game right now) I think Ange even mentioned those 2 bottles for the first two games in EP6 while in Featherinnes world again AND I think I remember how the story called BANQUET was her first forgery. I also never ever show anyone arguing on the basis of this 1 “true” story vs. 5 forgeries. The only versions I know are version of 2 daily-like “real” write-ups of the events by that “Maria” person vs. 4 reconstructions of the tale of Hachijo as some kind of internet “fanfictions” and this Author theory stuff I explained in my last comment which assumes that all 6 stories are kind of the “fictional” reconstruction of the reality which this story never showed us directly.
    Actually their IS a third variation among fans which stated that Hachijo my really be a liar and their really are 3 authors but thats only based on the observation how EP3 and 4 quite drastically shift in style of storytelling from EP1/2 and everything past this again again have a strong shift in tone and intention. But thats really debatable.
    What I wanted to point out is how the story making a clear distinction between the why EP1/2 and the rest were presented to the world. Hachijo is publishing books and internet stories while the bottles were manuscripts found in the sea. So its really conterintuitive to assume TURN was written by her. You COULD make a point in her trying to trick Ange/the world by faking the 2nd bottle are making this up as this was first mention in EP4 is declared as her fictional story but as I said Ange is bringing 2 bottles up again while talking to her so this option gets kill outright. So I guess you cannt have one “real” bottle without the other and so you really only get my 2 proposed options.
    Besides you even mentioned yourself how this setup with 1 bottle makes littles sense as EP1 is just half of the coin and important topics like the big influence of love, Beatos confusing personality and the whole anti-mystery-angle of the story wasn’t even present in EP1. And I might add that construction of EP3-6 from the conflict arising from the contradictions of EP1&2 by extending the “universe” established by those 2 stories makes a lot of sense and also fits with the whole anti vs. anti setup.
    I guess you see how this misassumption has a big impact on all this reasoning about the meaning and role for the meta-meta-space.

    My next points isn’t something like an error are something but just the way of your reasoning are standpoint that really confused me.
    You are talking about this Shkanon theory here in the comments (also acknowledging how it my be relevant) but while you are addressing the confusion development of the problem of those two characters above in the text you go a reeally long why of explaining their potential motives etc. with a theories you describe yourself as really unintuitive and weak while still hinting at the Shkanon theory but afterwards totally ignoring this aspect.
    I don’t see your intention clearly here. So I was wonder if you:
    1) wanted to leave it out for later parts of the analysis as the implication are not part of the setup phase of the game and you wanted to point-in-time-while-reading-opinion
    2) dismiss this theory as too crazy
    3) really never thought about it much before the comments brought this up
    4) just try to play the trolling witch here ;P

    But IMO your one argument against the one person idea being wrong because the story doesn’t say so – which I read as GM Battler didn’t point it out this way – is rather unconvincing as Battler has to build a game board which presents a riddle for his enemies so he cannot outright give away answers because it would be his defeat. I realize how this idea is totally absurd considering he also had the obligation to proof he understood the game by providing some kind of answer but well blame Ryu07 for this mess. :D

    I may wonder why I’m blowing this vagueness of the analysis so out of proportions but as I see this idea has grown to a really important part of discussion the core of the mystery though EP6 so I really hope so are taking a stance about this in the later posts. This game was and always will be about the playing with open-minded thinking and interpretation of perspectives so IMO I need to be a bit clearer where you are standing if you want good discussions about your analysises.

    From what you argued about in the comment I’ll take that you never minded this idea very much or still dismiss this as too strange and up until EP5 I would have agreed on this but IMO EP6 just took away this option as almost literally 1/3 of it throws symbolism and analogies at you that mostly make little to no sense without all this Shkanon stuff. The big problem still is that while it is a seemingly meant to be a major theme of this tale it’s completely implicit as its still part of the riddle.
    Perhaps you also don’t know the importance this theory has in the fandom by now. After all that is an idea that has a longer history of discussion and Ryu07 obviously knows it and likes to toy with the readers about their interpretation of this … most likely build it up this way intentionally to cause controversy.
    Don’t get me wrong: I personally really dislike this answer very much …. I would even guess most fans feel that way but while is crazy and disturbing in implications it also was so useful in explaining some major “inconsistencies” in the earlier stories and a was a easy backup way to explain some murders. Guess thats why the theorycrafter just couldn’t shut up about this idea as early as EP3 or 4. And especially with EP5 and 6 a read many reasons like “Is it finally addressed / disproofed?” but EP5 was still really vague about it and Ryu07 was even trolling the fans with one scene that seemlingly finally put this absurdity to rest but just came of as a trap with no real reliable informations.
    And now we have EP6 and he is rubbing it in your face all the time. As I commented at your last post no matter what will come of this by addressing it this way Ryu07 put himself in a double bind to come up with a REALLY good explanation for what he was doing with his narrative but regardless of your stance you just have to deal with it as a result when decoding his answers.

    The next one is a bit shorter and also minor in importance. Call it a small correction:
    “For starters, I didn’t know Shannon already KNEW that George was going to propose on that day. It always seemed like she was shocked but not exactly expecting it.”
    You were really surprised by this? Actually you shouldn’t. George was already talking to her about this in EP2 on their holiday with the aquarium, the beach etc. This was obviously way before the conference and he clearly stated that he will bring a ring and even somehow made it sound like an ultimatum to make up her mind until they meet at the island. He even stated how he would make their relationship official and go against the whole family if needed should she except. So EP6 didn’t introduce this contradiction to EP1 but EP2 already did. You could argue about the semantics of how accepting an engagement and literally planing out their whole life together upfront still have some very different qualities to it but I think that wasn’t your point here. Beside this lovey-dovey talk in EP6 was so annoying over the top that I don’t believe anything of it anyway. ;)
    Their always IS the option to assume that the development of their relationship is dependent on the individual story but I don’t like where this is going as this once again destroys something we took for granted: the invariance of all the events outside of the chess board.

    So thats it about the complains. Now I’ll be nicer. ;D
    About “Magic characters representation”: I think that a really comprehensive and spot-on presentation of this aspect of the meta-world. But I guess most people already made the same analysis after EP5 as Natsuhis sudden involvement with all the demons instead of her servants already make hard to overlook his intention to go for analogies here. I guess EP6 was just mention to put the final “confirmation” on this. IMO thats was Ryu07 would call an “answer” and meant with his “apple” example. But even if this somehow is besides the point of EP6 I really like to hear from you how you think the last puzzle-piece is fitting here? What is your interpretation of Gaap? Thats the only character that always was left really vague in this analogies I’m really curious how you reason this out (as I already stated once before ^^)
    What I really liked about your interpretation is the idea why the meta-furniture actually differ in behavior from the real counterparts. The idea that Beatrice (the one in the golden cage mansion) in her loneliness build those larger than life personalities in her mind from those few person who actual interacted with her (and we actually now that Genji and Kumasawa must have taken care of her) in her isolated life makes a lot of sense (and I never really thought about it THAT much). And it even fits this whole idea about how magic works that Maria is always going on about and we also know that Marias knew Beatrice for some time before the conference. I know I’m messing up timelines here big time as those 2 Beatrices could never be the same but Beato is also doing it all the time. XD
    But I’m wondering who may have influenced whom here. After all their is this strange scene where _Maria_ explains Beato how she understood magic to create Sakutarou (which is exactly the same topic of creating personalities) and Beato is awestruck by this. In the end Maria is declared Witch of Origins for she has the potential for so much more then the others (which I read as her far superior talent for creativity as a kid). Whoever Beato really is (out of the like 10 potential explanations the game has to offer) could it be that Maria was the catalyst for her her state of mind? I think that a really interesting approach to this important relationship they have in every story.

    About the “The Impossible memory”:
    I think its good you tried to reason out this part even if its not that central to the story as a really hated the vagueness the story put into this. The way Ange seemed to wake up out of a dream in pseudo-amnesia or whatever but on the other side remember her “past” future really pissed me of when reading it as this totally make no sense but when I read your idea and once again thought about her hazy memories something clicked and a intersting idea came up (even if farfetched).
    Their is no doubt Ryu07 as build Featherinne as a multilayered shout out to Hanyu from Higurashi to make her power over the Umineko a bit more understandable.
    But do you remember how this “time traveling” in Higurashi really worked. At least the VNs make it clear there was not really really “resetting” but this was all Rikas memories (and sometimes even those of other people) send on a journey to other Fragments. Futhermore Rikas was obviously afraid that this whole process may fail and she may lose some of her memories between transitions (e.g. the great revelation about the mastermind after the 7th game) and we got to know that Hanyu was the reason for this resets. See what I mean? If you try to fit this strange event of Ange into this pattern it fits perfectly. Featherinne has brought here there. Ange remember some different Fragment but lost some other memories and as a result is understandably confused by this. It even makes sense this way why suddenly we have someone who actually can influence reality with magic as you mentioned. After all Hanyu also was the one element to Higurashis story which was 100% unexplainable without supernatural involvements.
    I know how Featherinne isn’t Hanyu as much as Bern isn’t Rika personality-wise but I guess their could represent the same … lets say abstract idea in relation to the plot in both works.

    Next topic: “I wonder where could possibly Virgilia know Featherine from? ”
    Thats also something I was irritated by when came out of nowhere just to progress the plot but actually their was some little detail that make question what this scene really was about. That is: we hear for the first Virgilias full name and title. And boy… if you was annoyed by Featherinne name thats even even worst. But its also quite strange, isn’t it? I guess what he wanted to achieve her but when I looked it up I realize how his choice of name for Mrs. Mackerel Jokes may have even more meaning than I imagined at first. This may really be a double reference. How she is stand in clear analogy to Virgil of Dantes tale gets almost directly stated multiple times in the story. But what I only remembered when I when wikiwalking for her full name was how Virgil wasn’t just some character in big epic tale of Purgatorio etc. but also poet from Ancient Rome obviously working under Emperor Augustus. He also had a hand in crafting those tales about the Trojan war and at large was quite vocal about the importance of love in his works. So perhaps here is the link you were searching for. I don’t know what to make out of this as this seem more like some kind of fanservice to the history geeks but I also don’t believe thats a coincidence that 2 character with long-ass titles containing Roman names meet who otherwise have not connection at all. Especially if 2 of the names was never mentioned before this scene. Their are no such accidents in When They Cry.
    Besides the “child of men” has another meaning beside showing Featherinnes status above everyone else and her arrogance. Its another shout out to Hanyu who also addressed mere humans this way when she once in a blue moon stopped being a crybaby and got serious about her being a goddess.

    About the “1000th years old”:
    You already pointed out how the 1000 years as number are finally reveal as totally irrelevant to the plot in EP6. I always wonder about this idea that every witch seem to be exactly 1000 year while still of different age (not only in appearance but also when they joind the ranks of witches). But at first I tried to explain this away with all this bogus logic about time going on in the meta world (like time sometimes stopping for metaworld event and sometimes not, teenage Ange meeting teenage Battler paradox and all the order strageness). But EP6 finally put an end to this as the explaination got so ridiculous that it had to be a metaphor.
    But what I don’t get is how you arrived at the 19 years? I guess you jumped ahead a bit and refer to the talk about the almighty 19 during the duel. But to concluded from this that Beatrice is 19 years old is a really shaky argument considering how vague this talk about this number is pointed out. Beside thats once again brings up the question why of the like 10 things potentially called Beatrice has to do with this 19 years timeframe. ;P
    I only thing I remember clearly is how 1000 year were compared to those 6 years of Battlers absence. But this still brings out this metaphoric meaning nicely.

    But I have a different take on what actually is the deeper meaning of this long time frames talks and how it made them so mighty etc. But I don’t think that was simply meant to replace “1000 years” with something like “really long time” and I also expect your questions about their real age / birth whatever as pointless as questioning e.g. how Kanons laser blade works or why are those stakes wearing those fanservicey outfits. Thats all just a form given to a more abstract concept and those abstractions just make the details pointless to ponder on. IMO whats important her is the different in time frames. After all this story deal with 2 day in the life of some people. If you add background stories its maybe 50 years and even when Beato talk about humanity she never goes further then 100 years in her statements. So all those witches have a soooo much greater reach then those relevant humans. But why don’t we take a much more simply term for this time of this distinction and call it eternity. Well ok, that came of wrong. I don’t think they live forever but that they are just ever present when dealing with humans… just there for what they have power over.
    Why this idea? Remember the Extra TIPS of Tanabata story where those witches were talking about their powers and who they effect humans by ironically doing nothing at all? That the first time I realized the witches realm as a whole may just be some kind of abstraction…. an allegory for all this stuff they are said to have power over. See, Virgilia was explaining magic with those Gremlins in the Braun tube but perhaps the more important hint was this stuff about updraft and rain dance magic because thats just a tiny step from talking about how we realistically explain why gods and religions get formed. After all is that really that much different from how witches are defined? Both can be considered as easier understandable personification of a very specific idea or “power” (if you take this TIPS content) which humans have to deal with in their daily life but is just to abstract. Both are powered and dependent on believe and if nobody believes in witches they may even “die”.
    If Thor is just the awe human felt for thunder and lightning back in ancient times put into human form and Mars is everything people liked and feared about wars combined into one persona then Bern is maybe just some kind of statement how chance and fate is toying with humans who cannot comprehend this and explaining those rules (and what fate is a real bitch on top of this ^^). Or Lambda is just the power of determination in humans etc.
    I also have another different approach to this: We learn how witches can get destroyed be the Red and Blue and later they get called something like conceptional “forces”. So if concepts can kill witches doesn’t it make sense that they are at their core also made out of concepts. Heck, Bern even described her like a concept when she said Beato is the rules of this game. But considering that everybody says something different about Beatrice I guess she is a heavily overloaded concept after all. ^^
    So their you have it what may have been behind every witch being sooo old. Some of them may just be as old as humanity itself because they may have been made of all this things human always had to deal with. Perhaps thats also why the are so afraid of being bored. If the are bored, they don’t do anything. Which means the don’t interact which humans, so human don’t believe in them anymore, thus they stop existing as an idea nobodies cares about. In the end they have died of boredom. Makes sense in some weird way. :D
    You see, their is no need for them to be lied about they age to make sense out of this.

    This also ties in quite neatly with your interpretation of Beato as the rules of the game in the your next part. So I just leave it at that.
    The way witches have to write their compendium to detail how their magic works as one of their most important duties in life and the way Ryu07 put a subtitle reference to the Bible (I think) in their also fit this topic.

    And their you have it. Our beloved “3rd rated” detective story may in its subtext actually go not only navel gazing about the inner works of chessmastering and the whole mystery genre but also about religions and human nature. Who would have guess that at the start or when demons went over 9000 on the victims with laser blades. *laughs*

  4. @Digdri
    Oh, the real Witch here is Ryukishi, compared to him I’m nothing but a mere piece.

    Plenty of thoughts here. I’ll try to answer them all. Despite not showing a level of difficulty on the killing department like in past games Dawn is terribly frustrating on the interpretation of the mystery and how much of it is really “real” and not just simple “misleading” information, so it’s not like I can’t relate.

    I doubt Hachijo is a liar. I suppose almost everything is debatable in this tale but making a character that is supposed to shed some light on the story for the fans (both her and of the story) isn’t pretty. It’d be plain pointless to make a whole EP of somebody giving fake info so I don’t think she deliberately lies to Ange, not to mention that it’d make little different to lie to a piece that is simply going die in the next days to me. I’m a 100% sure about the bottles since the anime covered that too fast and I don’t recall what they said in the 4th Game. For what I gathered from the 6th Game was that Hachijo found the 1st bottle and she then wrote the rest of the tales so from the 2nd till Dawn. That’s where my reasoning came from so I may need to rewatched/re-read what really went down there. Also I think of Hachijo more as the author’s attempt to communicate with the readers for most part than anything.

    I think it’s better to rephrase what I think I said.

    Kanon and Shannon is an absurd theory that I dislike because it has too many holes in addition of being stupid. Yet the theory might still be possible because, well, it simply CAN. That’s what I dislike the most. That something as absurd as Kanon and Shannon is the answer.
    1) Both Shannon and Kanon really can’t be happy for whatever X reason (here I include whatever theory I may have mentioned). It’s difficult to firmly believe that there is something THAT strong stopping both of them of being happy.
    2) Both Shanon and Kanon THINK (or led to believe) they can’t be happy.
    3) Troll much, Ryukishi?

    I’m starting to dislike the Skanon theory more and more because of Dawn. It’s as if EP6 was created to only mind screw you and give you misleading (partly) info. That’s another reason I don’t like Dawn much. What really disturbed the most (I mention how different the mystery was in Dawn) is how the “supposed” killers aren’t the killers at all. It’s as if all of this was claiming that Shannon and or Kanon are the culprits of Dawn when if fact they aren’t… then.. so what am I supposed to do about this? Just info? To make us suspect them in past games? Lulz? Battler is plain terrible as GM?

    I’d probably be fine if the result was different but Battler’s mystery was so strange that in the end nobody was the killer (the killer was Erika but that was later on after the logic error etc) so this feeling that “this is all misleading or extra stuff” that doesn’t really matter kept coming back and forth in my head. Also why did Battler let this type of strangeness to happen in his game, anyway? It was so blatantly done in Dawn that it was one of the many reasons why I felt really uncomfortable playing it, therefore, the “this is so wrong” part which I said multiple times when reading Dawn. As you can guess I felt really uncomfortable and I had all the right to do so. It’s plain mindscrewing after another.

    “And now we have EP6 and he is rubbing it in your face all the time.”
    THIS. Ryukishi loves to do this! I love and I hate him for it. He better come up with some great explanation for this SK theories. Personally, I think he’s taking his trolling a bit far with the SKannon theory. I think there’s a logical explanation for it and it is a solution that just barely makes it through all the red and is almost illogical at first glance yet completely rational when you know the answer. He knows it extremely around so that’s why he does this and decided to exploit it to the MAX. Me? I can’t believe in the SKanon theory. The title for my Dawn review : Dawn of Trollfest and Doorama meant a bit more than that. It’s too much trolling fused with much drama from the furniture part. Dawn had its own purpose and I think it was mostly to give us info on some crucial parts of the mystery, however, it is also to purposely make you think of stuff to confuse you further for amusement. I’m sure Ryukishi has a good explanation for it meanwhile he’s just having fun with it rubbing it in our faces. I’m sure he has imported sweets, dried plums, and delicious tea while reading them. So yeah, I think there is a better explanation than Kanon and Shannon are the same person and R07 might be making just having a laughs. I never took that theory seriously in the first place anyway.

    On Gaap
    I think I saw some theory that Gaap was supposed to be Shannon or something like that some time ago. However, with EP6 giving both Kanon and Shannon their magic counterparts I wonder if we could completely rule that out. What do you think?
    Well, Gaap? She is in fact Dr. Nanjo, man. Ha! Did you see that explanation that I’ve seen around a few times before? It’s really hysterical, or is it? Hmm.. personally.. if I exclude Beatrice’s case that she used to be (or represent) a friend she either had or never had, I don’t think Gaap is supposed to be anyone in particular. Well, simply judging by her skills she should be Eva (or George) since George and Eva are the only two martial artists in the tale, but that’s extremely debatable. Maybe Gaap is supposed to represent just anyone in the island. That’d be kinda vague, right?
    What I think is that Gaap is a “means” rather than a representation of a person like some characters are. If we look back on all her actions Gaap is always there to “help” Beato (like a friend would) by hiding corpses or moving objects from one place to another. The other furniture? Ronove serves Beatrice tea and advises (butler/servant position), Virgilia acts as a mom/teacher (like a wise advisor), Gaap (?). Gaap doesn’t particularly give many ideas, she “provides”direct possible solutions like in EP5 when she proposes to be “used” to help Kinzo escape from the study like she is some sort of “plan”, therefore based on her actions and ambiguity I’d say she isn’t supposed to be anyone in particular but an “action.” I know that’s not a very detailed explanation and you might’ve not be that happy but that’s because I haven’t considered (much) Gaap to be anyone in particular because I’ve always viewed her a means/ solution/plan rather than a person, so if I tell you a name it’d probably be inaccurate. Maybe she doesn’t have a human counterpart because she was the friend that Beatrice never had? Therefore never “existed” ? Unlike the butler and teacher which I’m sure Beatrice had when she was little. I’ll let you draw your own interpretation of all of this.

    I’m glad that you didn’t completely misinterpret the cat in the box part that I mentioned. Yes, there aren’t actual time resets in Higurashi (though we, the viewers, believed there were back then) so I always questioned what exactly happened to the world all humans supposedly live in, does it go back and ALL our memories are reset? No. Like in Time wasting Chapter we see the events from the “past” then it finally moves to the future after the disaster that killed the people from Hinamizawa is mentioned when the Akasaka meets with Ooishi. They even mentioned all the deaths in ALL past arc so it’s not like the world stopped moving and kept resetting for them. So that’s what I was thinking when I made that theory about time really not stopping for anyone outside the box, thus how it’s possible for this crazy magic to exist on a closed circle in Rokkenjima. Hachijo with her tales are there to provide a logical explanation to the multiple time resets and how this tragedy keeps repeating for a world (ours) where supposedly magic doesn’t exist. That means us those who aren’t inside the box and aren’t affected by any strange supernatural forces. Well, I think that you explained these thoughts with Rika and Hanyuu explaining Ange’s impossible memory better than I did.

    Oh, Ryukishi and his obscure (and even obscurer) references. So that’s how we could explain how Virgilia “knew” Featherine. Thanks, it saved me a lot of time. Clearly there was something to Ange’s “sounds like a roman person name” but I didn’t look further or make the connection due to get the post out.

    I think the 1000 year old was a topic they had to without a doubt cover. I was practically waiting for it. Ange, I thought, you are six eps too late for that. I really hoped that at this point the VN readers had deeply questioned this belief already otherwise I might feel bad for the author. Oh, the age? Yeah I was referring to the age they mentioned in the game. Beatrice does look the age. I think that’s Beatrice’s actual age and the 1000 year old is just a metaphor.

    I detected Beatrice’s human nature in the 2nd game. I think I even mentioned when I was blogging the anime (you probably didn’t see it) how Beatrice’s behavior was not of someone who had lived 1000 years like those almighty god characters you see in anime or movies without emotions and with a totally different mindframe. Since that moment it was clear to me that she hadn’t lived THAT long even without knowing the rest of the tale and this was some fabrication or someone stretching the truth. Also the fact that “all” witches had lived like 1000 something made it more suspicious. What made me question even more the existence of Witches is Beatrice. I think Beatrice is the “fake witch” of all the witches. Fake is perhaps a very bad term since I still like Beatrice despite all. All Witches are supposed to have been humans at some point, they have these stories, they mention how when they were little and even Santa (though a joke) came to visit them, etc etc. Also there’s that Rika/Bern connection which I guess that’s where my idea that Witches are connected to a human host/root comes from. Bern and Lambda don’t boast much about how old they are as much as Beatrice, the one whose existence is doubted the most in the story. It’s as if Bern and Lambda are these “concepts” that have existed a long time ago, therefore they can’t be actually “denied” by Battler. On the other hand, there’s Beatrice, this “fictional” made-up witch who has been “allowed” (by Lamdbda) to be become one. Her position has always been strange because of the tale and because she is the only Witch whose existence is so fragile unlike the other witches. I think that flashback in EP3 when they show Beatrice back at her house just shows me that she used to be a simple human who something bad happened to her before/after she became a Witch. So maybe Beatrice is still the real human clinging and trying to play the Witch of the story and so helping the culprit or covering up for that person for her own reasons. I think that the rest of the Witches may be these old concepts while Beatrice may be just the human allowed to play Witch in a closed circle where only her existence is possible.

    • Thanks for the answers.

      About Hachijo:
      I guess you’re right how it makes little sense to make her a lying troll. After all for the story she is more like a supernatural force and a plot device then a real character of importance. After all she is just the metaphorical finger Ryu07 is putting on major plot points the readers should think about. Somehow like Virgilia 2.0 but not that straight forward with her help.
      But the stuff that really ticks me of about her is how she explicitly states that she has a truth and thinks its right but still also it is mentioned how she may not have the whole puzzle together (or something to this extent). Then their is her annoying attitude as a writer and how she just doesn’t want to answer anything herself. But most important she seems as twisted and evil as Bern in the tea party. I don’t like her and don’t know what to do with those stranger sides of her character.
      For the the authorship question I dug up some long ass script for EP6 (hope is really 100% the WH translation) and searched for the lines.
      1) “No, if you count ‘Alliance’ and ‘Banquet’, the other forgeries she’s made before now, then she’s killed off most of my family in horrible ways, over and over again…” (after Ange was musing about how she likes to kill her family and did it again in END)
      2) “In particular, Itouikukuro’s first forgery, ‘Banquet of the Golden Witch’, managed to show everything, including Ushiromiya Eva’s escape to Kuwadorian. People wondered whether this might be the true story of Rokkenjima, and it even made it onto the talk shows…”
      3) “When that happens, it will become the work of ‘that bizarre Hachijo’, and no one will think of them as mere fan creations. …People will probably start wondering if this might actually be a third message bottle she found and released under the guise of a story she herself wrote.”
      And for EP4 I have no immediate lines but I remember how she was talking to those other people (guess is was the professor) about how 2 bottles were found and the content has huge discrepancies but it was just implied that their were LEGEND and TURN. But by now we know those MUCH have been.

      I think its safe to say my point is proven. Still you are right that where those texts came from is not really of primary importance to solve the mystery. Still the 2 vs 4 version makes more sense for the whole setup of forgery from “real” sources content. I was just pointing that out because you were arguing multiple times based on the 1 vs 5 version, so you may want to rethink this stuff for later analysises.

      Shkanon theories, 2nd round :D
      I clearly see why you don’t like this theory and as I said I don’t like it much either but I don’t consider it just a random prank or a needless distraction either. I think their is a clear purpose for all this twisted mess. Obviously that just my personal interpretation based on fitting informations. I also realize how you are very Anti-Fantasy in your reasoning while I even sometimes turn the chessboard on some Anti-Mystery stuff to see what funny stuff may result. So you may not like where my idea is going.

      But first things first: The problem I really have with this idea isn’t just that of the weird implications of a two-in-one-person but EP6 is making all this stuff so much worse and disturbing. Let’s just consider for a moment this story WAS really meant to tell us by the duel how they are one person. But looking a bit close what WAS said about them? Their was this talk that they are just parts of a whole human as furniture and the duel should correct this but when Shannon won their was this weird talk about how Beato and Kanon got “drawn in” by Shannon… See now Ryu07 make everything 50% more annoying as now we aren’t suppose to deal with Shkanon but Shanontrice and really immagine this person in a realistic way. A split personality human but also with a third persona as some kind of illusionary friend who even has another imaginary big sister person at her side. But before you stop thinking about this as this is getting to unrealistic… here’s the kicker: He already showed up this can work out. Think back to Maria from EP4. She could be considered a borderline split personality type. She is always going back and forth between her sweet & innocent and slightly retarded (I know its mean to say but just fitting :( ) behavior and her almost impossible scholar like twisted occultist freak stuff. But at the same time she even has a third persona as an “external” part of her minds word in the form of her beloved Sakutarou. He is more like the rationality to her both other absurd mindsets.
      So you see this can work out eerily well. O_O

      Another thing about this is: You said the theory is disturbing and stupid as it is not fitting in the earlier stories. I say you are right how the implication from such the weird human and all the resulting problem for your love stories are really twisted the theory still isn’t “stupid” to think about. After all their really is a reason the fans kick this idea around so much. If you never really consider this when reading the first stories you may really never noticed it but their are a vast number of scenes make a lot more sense with Shkanon. I guess thats really one of those “Without a strange mindset it cannot be seen” things just like Kinzo being dead would never pop into your mind if you didn’t already suspect their is something wrong about him as the story is so careful explaining every minor hiccup in presentation in a logical ways.

      So let me give you just a short run down of what we are dealing with here.

      The most obvious help from this theory is – just like dead Kinzo – this idea substracts one human from the total count on the island and this way many murder are easier to explain by reintroducing a person X. Cheap but effective.
      Then their is this really sneaky problem in the story how Battler simple NEVER sees both of them together in the same why he never really met Beato and Kinzo (I know thats technically incorrect but I think you know what I mean). Their is also almost in every story a problem about the vagueness or contradictions with Kanons death.
      “But wait!” you may say: EP5 had Battler together with everybody in one scene so you can forget that! That problem with this scene is that its a really clever trolling. All those against Shkanon theories were delighted to see this idea crushed and this scene almost seemed to just exist for this purpose but it totally loses its sting when you later realize how the story even addresses how Battler isn’t a reliable narrator. And its not even out of character to “fool” us as ne never was “in character” to begin with as he was remoted controlled at this time. So this all was Bern & Lambda doing it for the lulz. (See how deep this is rooted into the story?)

      But besides that their are some major WTF situation which make more sense earlier.
      Remember how Kanon and Shannon where the only ones so see Beato in EP2. Also a really big part of their backstories were essentially those three charging their most personal problems which are also *coincidentally* about the same topics of unfulfilled love.
      But their is more: Beato demands that Kanon bows to her will so she may leave ONLY Shannon out of the roulette of death stuff early on. This never may any sense other then Beato being a bitch but well….. think about this.
      Also what was the point in Kanon getting all worked up about how Shannon couldn’t forsaken her desire as now both were (essentially) doom to never see the golden land?
      Their is a lot more scene where EP2 already show how both of them are really tied together by some strange and illogical “fate” and everything about it is also linked to Piece-Beato.
      Later we get Kanon vanishing after death and then zombie Kanon which seemingly only Shannon can banished with spider webs (why?!?) where everyone else is instantly dead even trying to defend. (Yeah I know… its all magic anyway but whats the point in constructing this story in the first place?)
      Then there is EP4 during the prison brake with this HUGE WTF moment where both are suddenly go totally meta about “the game” and talk about their resolve to go on which seemingly nobody else around them can heard. This part even states how they were once furnitures belonging together.

      I could go on and on but I think thats enough for now as non of this stuff provides facts but its just a delusional & schizophrenic human making a lot more sense then what most magic is giving us. But on the other side there is also a lot of red about them and thats where fans get annoys as the confirmation of this theory would render red truth a silly and cheap trick and also mostly a farce.
      So their you have what makes the fans go on and on about Shkannon or Shkannontrice since EP6. ^^

      But I promised an explanation. ;D
      See my personal take on this is that this theory is a very specific trial for the readers fitting into a bigger scheme of this whole series.
      You may wonder what trial I’m thinking about. So first the short version: I think this is just a condensed version of his initial Anti-Fantasy vs. Anti-Mystery conflict. He is essentially building a cat box around this topic and is really careful to not give any answer to this (and as I read not even EP7 is really changing this sadly). But he still gives as all the reasons to got both ways. Its as useful to trick some of the restrictions of the setting as it is ridiculous to really imagine the weird drama resulting from the story justifying it.
      So now you may wonder why this is Fantasy vs. Mystery or whatever….
      Thats where my longer version starts.
      What really is the point of this grander setup? Ryu07 even wrote small essays about why he thinks both sides are important. It seem more mockingly then anything but still why would Beato who always said she wants interesting game even play THIS game if one one of this sides was always the right way to see the world. So do we really need to believe in magic? I don’t think so. After all I think this stuff really is only meant to give to a way to the concept of DOUBTING the power of logics. See I interpret this whole topic just as a variation of an much older philosophical conflict. What he is dealing with here are just 2 ideas human are proud of as likely to pit against each other. On an even more abstract level you could see this game just as “ratio vs emotionality” and thats something humanity as fought so often about whats more important. Anti-Fantasy was always about reality, logics and common sense while Anti-Fantasy was always about power of believing and importance of love. It simply fits and I was really buffled to notice how much he was going for this idea in a tale with should automatically always tilt to one and the same side and it really worked. He constructed it really cleverly with this moral conflict Battler was tortured by right from the beginning. Ratio tells him how he has to find the murder for the sake of justice or whatever but his emotions tell him he should never doubt the people he love and see them as insane murderers. But he cannot have it both ways so he is suffering.
      But well that still doesn’t mean we have to except magic and Beatos involvement? Our Anti-Fantasy is strong enough to defy the witch… right?
      I say Ryu07 may have already messed another with our minds to confuse where we are standing.
      EP5 in its entity tries to turn this whole idea on its head but I think the most important part is the battle in the study over Kinzo. Thats still a time when the reader hasn’t such an urge to see Erika die to ignore all she is saying but still plays out EXACTLY AS PLANNED. Erika is Anti-Fantasy and perfectly reasonable and also completely right as we already KNOW by now. The whole scene is even an homage to typical detective stories with all those 5 min flashbacks etc. but she still loses because Battler is arguing very emotional and also very stupid. But nobody wants to see it neither ingame nor the readers as Battler is just so AWESOME doing this. After all we cannot put ANYTHING past Kinzo even if its jumping through a window and saving the day while already being dead.
      See, here we already had our objectivity compromised.

      And now you see why I call this Shkanon stuff a trial and why I don’t think its just some funny/stupid/distracting filler stuff as he is doing it again on a much more complex level. By pushing this sooo hard in EP6 but still not giving any answer he essential make BOTH answer ridiculous on different levels. But we also cannot ignore that its important to find the right answer. So this time kind of double cat box because no matter which side you are on you find much stuff to support and denied it and it won’t feel right RIGHT so think it to the end.
      So here he make a real *choice* what to believe and their is no more default option because magic will always lose against logic etc.

      And I guess thats also why you as well as me are so uncomfortable with this topic. It simply could have been made to make you question your general approach to this “game”.
      But if this was really the plan all along I really applaud him for having the ball to do such a weird thing as even if the theories seem really stupid the idea to throw this all at us and mock us with this sadistic choice til the very end is a really clever use of this whole concept. And its has also a much more profound message then just another run-of-the-mill mystery story about some riddle/trick how to execute the perfect murder.
      But enough of that.

      I see you also found the funny theories about Gaap-Nanjo… Well I have to say this time thats so absurd a really liked it for its ridiciousness. And no, I don’t consider gender an obstacle as those furniture metaphors already are really loosely based on the real persons. Beside as with Shkannon their are some good reason to thing of him. Gaap is always described as an old friend and also as an “outsider” and doesn’t have such strong ties to all the other furnitures and sometimes also doesn’t “get” them. If she is around in meta world she also always is only hanging around with the Beato/Lia/Ronove group and she even is present in Natsuhis Kinzo delusions so it hints strongly to belonging to the mansion most of the time but sometimes being completely absent. But what make me really consider this idea was how there was one dialog with Natsuhi in the study in EP5 when she was in deep trouble Gaap suddenly was all like “If I may be allowed to give suggestion…. I may not belong here and have no idea how thinks get deal with here but …. IMHO we should….” or something to this extent. THATS exact how Nanjo is always beating around the bush if he has to tell something of importance. He also is the perfect person to move the bodies while always pretending to play chess with Kinzo.
      Their also was this weird word play interpretation how Gaaps rank (#33) makes much sense in the context of what a French doctor would say while examining people. But I have no idea about French so no idea but seem to make a lot of sense to those discussing this.
      Those bee sting strikes also get associated to all this syringe / drugs / KO drops / poison discussions but IMO that makes little sense.
      On the other side George vs. Gaap makes absolutely sense for his matial arts skills and those EP4 1st Twilight black holes would mean he is throwing himself into a prison?

      But I really like your more abstract theory and thats why I asked. Nanjo may be stupid but I never some much better ideas about Gaap as most people don’t seem to care that much. I guess you version is workable but still makes you wonder why she is so restricted in appearance.

      About the “time resets”:
      I assume in the end its not really that important how and why this resets work and why futures . After all I always envisioned this Sea of Fragments as one big multiverse and every world is just a linear stream of time and those stories just take the same small time frame of different stories and compare them. All have a past and those are usually similar or even the same but still of different worlds so essentiall “two pasts” and the futures are all majorly different but we only get to see like one or two of all possible futures. Umineko is a bit more annoying about this as it takes most likely 2 or more futures but tries to make us think they are from the same world.
      And those “resets” are simply taking some partial memories from a person at time X in world A to time Y in world B which is “earlier” in the new world. In the end thats not really like “resetting” something at all but more like propagating some information in impossible ways through an increasingly bigger “area” of the Sea… there isn’t really much going back from an external perspective so to say. More like a “error in the matrix” spreading like wildfire :P
      I think to make this analogy of Fragments stored as books in her library representing her forgeries was really clever. See if you imagine those books as some kind of magical special books (with super paper? ;P ) with have room for unlimited attention to detail those books are really like the Fragments. Taking the books and reading specific pages to gain knowledge is almost the same as Bern flying around in the Sea and looking into her awesome crystals showing reflections. Also Featherinne stated idea how all her forgeries have to obey to the rules of the true world makes write those forgeries just like picking another so far unexamined Fragment while had already existed in the first play because it was POSSIBLE. Looking at it this way even this recursive reality shit isn’t so annoying and mindfuck inducing, right?

      About “Augustus vs. Virgil”: It may make sense to conneted the dots this way but WHAT IS the point to even write this. How does ancient Rome even remotely has relevance to this story. One thing that seems to fit is:
      1) Underlining Featherinnes “1000 year old”-ness
      2) Bringing in Virgils topic as poet
      3) just some random insider joke

      About the age of witches:
      I’m not really convinced to argue with their behavior as Bern and Lambda clearly are showing being (maybe) ancient old and super wise or intelligent can still leave you really immature and trolling around like a little kid.
      But you are right how Beato has some thoughts to her that make her seem to much rooted in the limited life of a human to really convince us as an higher being of eternal existence.
      But I still don’t think she is a “fake witch”. This term got tossed around ingame for Eva-B because she was really restricted to just the gameboard as a piece as she was missing what Beato/Bern/Lambda have and I called those universal “concepts”. And I guess every witch was once a human as those “concepts” are simply problems humans are dealing with and those humans who become witches are just the some of the best examples for those aspects of human nature.
      So what is Beatos metaphor about would be the next logical step in the discussion.
      My first important observation is how Ryu07 get more and more straight forward in how Meta-Beatrice is really a combination of different of those concepts. EP6 just starts to slap this in your face with chick Beato vs. Elder Beato but this already got addressed much earlier in more abstract terms which ironically make this easier to comprehend. Remember those compendium the witches write (likely containing those “concepts” explained). EP4 introduced this in the TIPS but their was also some part about how Beatos at first was know as 2 seperate compendiums called “the golden” and “the endless” but later got mixed and so it become something new which was neither of the former. See, here we have something to work with. She always had this weird double title but if you now seperate those ideas in terms of “concepts” it really makes sense. I guess “the golden” isn’t really a strong concept… that most likely just about the mass murder illusions or her live as the “woman with the gold” or whatever but “the endless” … well that where she has this EPIC level powers and where she really seem like a mighty goddess. So what’s the idea behind it? Goddess of Eternity? I didn’t think that works. Love would be the obvious other choice. But I think that just part of her “human life” part and she don’t seem to good in this as well as she is suffering from this herself. But I think the Tanabata stories is a huge help in figuring this out. Do you remember how she help Maria with her wish? She did do anything but simply tell her to think about what she wants granted and every extenting this idea til Marias was happy. And that what she is alway saying…. “Remember the beauty X once had!”.. thats also what Virgilia always said who also has this title of “the endless” in her name. But isn’t that a really weird way of invocing magic? Their is also often this eyes shuting etc. At first I thought that about memories but that doesn’t fit so well. Maria isn’t happy because of her memories but because of making new ones…. so thats when I found the key word and that also me hypothesis: Beato “concept” is power of imagination… and that fitting her magic SOOO well. Killing people endlessly in rage. Well sure. You can do whatever you want in your mind and how often you like. “Remember the form of the vase but it is a frail magic that won’t last”… check. But their is more: Beatos magic got often connected to dreaming for Ange and Maria. Also it is said how common sense (the “toxin”) destroys magic and how children learn magic so much better then adults as a result from this. And essentially Marias whole daily life rest on her need for all those fantasies in her mind to even function without totally turning crazy. So it makes sense that she is Beatos most important and beloved disciple. Also only with Beatos and Virgilias help of magic Sakutarou turning from little cute toy to funny shota boy. ^^
      I would call this her “true witch” part and its a really nice idea to make a “compentium” from…. and also from twisting it from heaven to hell metaphorical speaking illustrated in Marias dairy pages.
      Perhaps Beato even became the Endless Witch because as you claimed multiple times was Kuwadorian-Beatrice may have tried to make life more fun by imaging all those funny meta-people like Ronove etc. she never had. Its not like she had anything better to do in her life…. well that sound even more depressing then Marias way of life. :(

  5. Meta in meta made my head hurt. I was all “Wha…..” And to be honest, I really don’t have a clue of where I fall in that scale of x/100 readers. All I know is that those rocks AuAu/Ryukishi threw hit me, and that I for sure, am not in the 20/100 group. Oh well, at least I know someone who does fall.

    On other topic, the whole “dazzling” part really made me laugh while I was reading that, WHILE I was feeling embarrased for those two kids. There’s a limit to how much corniness I can take without cracking up.

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