Umineko no Naku Koro Ni – 33 ~Chiru~EP5 – Let the Great Court of Illusions begin! Burn the Witch Beatrice the Golden

the one that is called When they Cry 4 for a good reason

Hold your horses and magical multicolor ponies! This episode was great as it could get on levels of the core of Naku Koro ni with a showdown in which Law and Order meets R07 and R07 meets BACK sadistic Higurashi, but I’m still bound to go L5 when I see DEEN chop this episode into a couple of minutes. Even Kinzo right here is shedding manly tears already.

Ever heard of human chess? Well, this is the most vivid representation of it. Beatrice’s time is near its end with her being sent to the the guillotine by the name of denial of the witch and Natsuhi is brutally tormented.  For those unfamiliar with this EP, you really can’t get a good feeling of the how fragile truth is until you play this part of the game. No, forget the anime, you’ve seen nothing. The Ushiromiya is most unique as it is the only one goes even reviving the dead and goes to a Witch’s court to get their issues solved, plus special guests and goatmen included. Of course, as much reasoning from my part as I can currently give is included.   Jerry Springer and Judge Judy can’t handle this family or crime. That’s why we get yuri trolling duo witches to handle the job. When logic and sanity start to fail you, you know you’re in the right show. Welcome back.

The Court of Illusions start. The three witches Lambdadelta, Bernkastel and Beatrice can be seen on the upper level of the courtroom. All the pieces, alive or dead, have been gathered here for their testimonies to be taken. Battler is also here and he has been warned by Siesta 00 to not speak out of turn as he joined in the game much later than the rest. Furudo Erika introduces herself to the court and so does all the human pieces and the witches’ furniture, one by one they all state who they are and what are their positions (whether dead or alive) till this point. Time for truth and lies to clash once again. I was so waiting for this moment!

Dlanor A. Knox and her people are here as well to take care of any confusing “play on words” or tricky statements that may be present. The trial begins with Natsuhi being charged of being the real culprit of this arc, that is the one who carried out the first twilight, and the next twilights. Erika explains that this is possible because it was only possible for Natsuhi to do it, therefore, she has to be the culprit. Natsuhi is of curse both scared and upset that they believe her to be the killer of her family. Beatrice affirms her that she has her back and that she will fight with all her life to prove that she is innocent. Battler understands that in this malicious game where only Bernkastel and Lambdadelta have little to lose but what he doesn’t get is that even Erika’s life may be on the line here seeing how cruel her master is.

Because they all already believe that Natsuhi is the culprit, Detective Furudo Erika starts with the “How dunnit” part making her case against Natsuhi. In this closed off Rokkenjima there should not be more people than the ones we see here, therefore the culprit must be one of them is what it is stated.  Well, I can’t argue with that since I already accepted Knox’s 1st a long time ago… but it cannot be Natsuhi who is the culprit. Anyhow, Erika’s side claim that only Natsuhi is the one who was able to do it based on the proof that Erika plans to show to the court. Battler finally understands that in this world false charges that everyone accepts are worth no more or less than the truth. A perfect and cruel witch game. Beatrice objects that Erika goes chronologically and NOT start with Hideyoshi’s death (which it seemed it was only possible for Natushi) Of course, Bernkastel objects to this. Lambda states that she doesn’t like confusing things herself (Heh, Higurashi was pretty confusing if you ask me) so she wishes that start from the very beginning so they don’t miss any clues, therefore approving Beatrice’s request.

The very reason that Natsuhi is being suspected to being the culprit is because she has no alibi… if Beatrice is to save Natsuhi then she must prove that Natsuhi does have an alibi or that at least it was not possible for her do it.

Where there is a detective there will be a crime

The human pieces that are made of wax are brought to life. After being questioned by Erika, Gohda and Kumasawa state that after they were done with their duty they went to their respective rooms. If we recall Kumasawa went to sleep earlier, therefore no one knows what she was up to. Beato sees her chance and uses it to counter Erika’s reasoning that it was only possible for Natsuhi to have committed murder…

But the truth is that they couldn’t have done it because they were with Erika as she explains. Beato gets serious and requests they use red to declare that both Kumasawa and Gohda didn’t commit murder. Trollkastel refuses because there is no need for them to give hints to the enemy, which makes sense. In that case, Beatrice will use her blue to counter these false accusations and since Erika cannot use the red to counter them, Beato tells the intellectual rapist to step aside as her opponent is Dlanor over there and not a mere human like her. Erika tells Beatrice that that won’t be necessary and she is, of course, up for the challenge. She has her own weapon called reasoning.

Beatrice’s blue claim is that, “Gohda and Kumasawa have no alibis. The two of them were in the guesthouse and they could’ve reached the cousins’ room to commit murder at any time. Unless you can deny the possibility, you can treat Natsuhi as the culprit”. Erika easily takes on Beato’s blue claim stating that when being interrogated Kumasawa said that she slept right through the night (didn’t go outside at all). This is of course, questioned but Erika mentions that she had a discussion with Eva prior to this.. and it was then that she came up with the idea of putting something between the frame of the door (same as Ep1!) to check one’s alibi. Because she already knew something was going to happen she went to check in the morning if the seal she put was still there. And yes it still was.  Therefore, Kumasawa did not leave her room till morning.

Bern says <good> for the first time too. It must be contagious. She uses her red after hearing Erika’s theory, “In other words, after Kumasawa returned to the guesthouse, she never went to the second floor until morning”. So what about Gohda, huh? Erika claims that he was holed up in the servant room after reaching the guesthouse then she sealed him up in the same way. Tsk.  Erika then tells us that she saw Rosa at the corridor in the guesthouse when she returned at 1:00 a.m when Erika stepped out into the corridor. The seal on his door was doing just fine so from the time they reached the guesthouse at 1:00 a.m, therefore, Gohda never left the servant room until that time. Also according to Erika, Gohda was with her (and Nanjo) until 3:00 a.m keeping them company after he left the servant room. Erika only went upstairs when it was 3:00 so she can guarantee Gohda didn’t go upstairs until that time. Of course, she then sealed him up again. Wouldn’t you want to see that being animated? In other words, (Bern) ; “– after Gohda returned to the guesthouse, he never went to the second floor until morning.” Erika proudly explains that even though she is human she can use the red and surpass humans with the help of her master and her perfect reasoning. Beatrice gets mad upon hearing Erika speak so arrogantly, but can she put her in her place?

Actually Erika has been keeping some info from us so she apologies for being so roundabout and properly explains the situation at 12:00 pm. After the “emergency family conference” she, the 3 cousins, Nanjo, Kumasawa, and Gohda remained at the guesthouse. Erika confirms that George, Jessica, and Maria were playing trump (oh, that was the game)  in the cousins’ room. She states that she did join in and that they were alive back then. That was around 24:00 and everyone was alive. Therefore it is assumed that the killings started beyond that point.

> Great. Now, we know it can only have been committed after the clock at the mansion sounded. That damn clock. I had one of those when I was little. I wonder if it’s still there..

See? This is why the anime is so inferior to the VNs. We don’t get those words in double brackets.

So the story is that Nanjo, Gohda, and Kumasawa were on the first floor at the time that killing was committed. Bernkastel uses the red on Erika’s request, “At 24:00 in the guesthouse George, Jessica, and Maria were alive in the second floor cousin’s room. Nanjo, Gohda and Kumasawa were on the first floor.” She also confirms that, “George, Jessica, Maria, Rosa and Genji are all dead.” That’s exactly right. Now it’s impossible for Beatrice’s group to go about claiming “they were playing dead” or that the crime took placed before those doors were sealed. Beatrice messed up. And big time. To go even further Bernkastel says in red that, “Natsuhi, Krauss, and Genji were in a corridor on the 2nd floor of the mansion. All the remaining people were at the family conference in the dinning hall. At that point in time, no murder had occurred. Genji was also alive.” Perfect move on Bernkastel part as Beatrice could’ve claimed that people at the mansion “lied” to have the same story (Tsk. I thought of the same trick myself) thus, Bern decided to settle it once and for all with her red text.

Battler realizes that Beato is in the same position he was in before, no, this is different and much worse. Back then Beatrice gave him the chance to fight back (and DID SHE). Also because she knew the answers to the riddles she could use her red. Now that she isn’t the game master therefore it’s not possible for her to know the answers to this riddle. Because Bernkastel understands the mystery the best she will not give Beatrice any real hints for this match.That’s the situation here.

Ronove and Gaap advise Beatrice to attack Nanjo’s alibi since he was with Erika but that doesn’t guarantee everything. Nanjo answers Beatrice’s question saying that he was with Erika from 1:00-3:00a.am on the night of the murder, hanging out at the lounge of the guesthouse. So, “From 1:00 – 3:00, Erika, Nanjo, and Gohda spent their time in the lounge on the first floor of the guesthouse.” So what happened after that was over, huh? Maybe Nanjo killed the cousins the rest after 3:00 when he left Erika’s side, right?  Erika claims she played cards with the cousins in their room until 24:00 (now we know the time) then Erika came downstairs.  Also since Nanjo and Erika found that they share an interest for the mystery genre.. Mystery genre ftw right there.  Nanjo claims that he found a kindred spirit at the moment.

A bit after that I suppose Erika went with Nanjo to the archive room looking for copies of famous mystery novels that Kinzo kept stored there so they (assuming Erika) went to get the key from Gohda. Erika then checked and “reset” the seal on his door. In other words, Nanjo was with Erika from 24:00 – 3:00 therefore Nanjos’s alibi is rock solid Lambda suggests – exactly Erika explains. The detective mentions that when they left the archive room they bumped into Rosa at 1:00 a.m and she let Gohda know about it since she figured it was a servant job to go greet her. Also meaning no one died till that point.

> Also meaning they spent about a whole hour inside the archive room while the crime was possible being committed. Hmm..

Gohda, Nanjo, and Erika stayed together until Battler came to the guesthouse, tired from the long family conference after he found the gold. Right after he reached the guesthouse Batter headed to his room upstairs. Everyone  said goodbye to each other right after Battler went upstairs. Erika then put a seal on the door to Nanjo’s room just like he did for Gohda. In other words, Nanjo’s alibi is even more perfect for than anyone’s else since before 1:00 he was with Erika and after 3:00 a.m he never once left his room. Trollkastel is quite pleased with it and claims that both Erika and her seals. This totally proves alibis for everyone on the guesthouse. Beatrice wants to object but it’s just not possible for her. Lambda turns down her objections and thinks that it’s totally <pop> <cute> and <perfect>.

> See? This is why the anime is so inferior to the VNs. We don’t get those words in double brackets.

Batter objects to all this as he himself could’ve done it (Serious?) but he is whipped by Siesta 00 because it was not his turn to speak yet. He was warned. See. Now he is just asking for it. Battler shuts up for now even though he doesn’t like it one bit. Beato understands that it was also possible for him (in other words other people too) to commit the murder and since Erika wouldn’t know everything that happened after 3:00, especially in the cousins room unless she snuck into Battler’s bed to watch his sleeping face.

> Oh, Beato. You always and your sexual innuendos jokes.

GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT?

What she doesn’t know is that Erika does know what happened in that room. Erika claims that she listened to Battler breathing all night (wtf) therefore, even though “she wasn’t there” because of the thin wall (sigh, Japanese walls..) this was possible for her because her room was next to Battler’s. Erika claims that she noticed that after 3:00 nothing strange happened in that room. They explained that upon Bernkastel’s request Erika put her ear on the wall and listened in to everything on the next room. Since Bern was sure Battler (who was now the head) would be killed on that night she came up with that idea. Not only is Erika’s memory is perfect but her hearing is as well, therefore it was just not possible for murder to be committed after 3:00. Hell, she says that they’re on par with a tape recorder. Erika.. is not normal. Seeing all that evidence Lambda has no choice but accept it and declares in red,  “Ushiromiya Battler returned to the cousins’ room at 3:00 and fell asleep. After that until the discovery of the crime, absolutely nothing out of the ordinary happened in the room!” Also therefore Bern tells us that, ” it was impossible for Battler to commit murder or damage the corpses.” So the crime was between 24:00 – 3:00. Now the only way to prove that it was done by a human would be to prove that it was done by someone from the main mansion.. problem is that Erika only needs to prove that no one from the mansion came over to the guesthouse after 3:00 a.m to prove her point.

Battler thinks that it may have been possible for someone to have used a ladder (told ya) to reach the 2nd floor of the guesthouse so Erika wouln’t have noticed them when they infiltrate the guesthouse. Beatrice uses blue basing her claim on someone using a ladder like Battler suggested. Erika’s group already knew she was going to try something like that, thus Erika claims that her lookout from the lounge on the guesthouse was “perfect” because of how the place was constructed. But not only that but Erika also claims that she can prove no one got in the parlor between 24:00 and 3:00. Battler and Virgilia discuss the only possible way that is was possible for someone to have done it is by getting in without Erika noticing. Erika isn’t happy with such claims so she destroys them too asking her master to repeat in red, “It’s impossible for anyone to reach the 2nd floor of the guesthouse without anyone in the lounge noticing it.” Mind you, this refers to the inside of the building. To our surprise Erika claims that she KNOWS that no one got in using the windows because she used her seal on all windows (on 1st and 2nd floor). She did this the other day after Battler found the gold so she’ll have plenty of evidence when the time came.  Upon Yuridelta’s asking Erika explains that she was.. outside in the rain.. climbing.. in her swimsuit sealing all windows. Why? Because it was her duty as a detective. Why? Because she knew that that there was going to be a killing the next day. Erika is awesome. In a very creepy way. Therefore Rifyu getting all his stuff from. Like Virgilia says, Erika is a witch piece after all.

From her perspective detectives who don’t prepare anything before the outbreak of the crime are third-rate (which would be just about every detective out there btw) By following Bern’s orders they managed to proved so many things and that’s  also why Erika was not the first to reach the cousins room since she was checking that all seals were untouched. Lambda has to accept this evidence as truth and repeats in red that, “It was impossible to reach the second floor of the guesthouse without passing the lounge, and it was impossible to reach it at all without Erika, who was in the lounge, knowing about it!” Erika proceeds stating in blue that, “therefore, the time of the crime is limited to a single hour between 24:00, when they were confirmed to be alive, and 1:00 a.m, when the party on the lounge started”. There’s not much we can do now, the seals are perfect and the killings must have taken place between 24:00 and 1:00 . Erika innocently claims that because she was so “engrossed with the conversation” in the storeroom, she could’ve missed if there was somebody passing right through the corridor during the period that time.  Lol.. Isn’t that ridiculously convenient? What do you think everyone? Actually, it’s because it purposely puts people without an alibi from 24:00-1:00 a.m under suspicion, in this case Natsuhi herself.

It’s coming down to the people who were at the mansion who were the only ones who could’ve done it.  The witch of miracles (clarifies) that until 1:00 none of the people in the dinning hall, not of them left the dinning hall until 1:00 a.m. “All of people in the dinning hall, not one of them left the dinning hall after 1:00”. Therefore with this, alibis for all people on the dinning hall got proven.. then by this only 3 could’ve committed the killings. This is really turning uglier and uglier. Beato objects to this as there is no “seals” or anything to back this up, however, Bern claims (in red all of things) that there is no need for the red to be explained. The irony is that Beatrice made that rule herself.

Now they go for Genji who could’ve also done it then killed himself before he was killed or committed suicide. Bern makes the situation easier for us with her red, “when Genji finished transferred the call, he immediately returned to the waiting room.” We then see Erika thanking Eva for her cooperation since Eva taught Erika the seal (and marks). I knew she was no good! So the story is that Eva went to Genji’s waiting room during the break at 1:00 and used the same seal as Erika. This is then proven by Kanon and Kumasawa’s testimony that the seal was still there the next morning, therefore not broken or removed once. Bern uses red to reassure this, “At 1:00 a.m Eva sealed Genji’s waiting room, and that seal was broken by Kanon/Kuma the next morning when the crime was discovered.” Also,  “during the short break at 1:00 the first two to leave the dinning hall were Rosa and Eva. Until Eva returned, everyone in the dining hall remained there. After seeing Rosa off, Eva went to the waiting room and sealed it. Of course, she did not enter the room at all at this time.”

“To a detective, the Ushiromiya family is nothing more or less than a stage upon a crime occurs”. – Furudo Erika

We can wish to challenge his as much as we want but it is truth due to proper reasoning constructed from testimony by Erika. Erika uses her scientific proof to prove this and Bern says that by this proof it was impossible for Genji to get to the cousins room since, “Genji never left he mansion after 24:00. Therefore, it’s not possible for a man named Genji to have commits the killings of the 1st twilight.” Now who do we got left? The list of possible culprits according to this is down to only Krauss and Natsuhi. Bernkastel is loving this as much as I love tearing mysteries apart and she taunts Natsuhi seeing how cornered she is getting. She tells Beatrice that this is her chance to prove Natsuhi’s  innocence with Devils’ proof as if they said that Krauss could’ve done it and not Natsuhi.

Battler totally knows this is pure bull. Virgilia understands how Battler feels but she also knows that Erika’s truth is still “proper truth”. In cannot be a fake truth built only on lies. In the end it “makes sense” even though it is a mixture of truth and lies, it is worth the same as truth since based on proof and reasoning. Everything adds up therefore her “truth” is plausible unless it is refuted. Battler belives in Natsuhi’s innocence no matter and that the real truth is only something you find after throughly investigating both possibilities. He also realizes that Beato is just defending instead of trying to find a new and different truth to show Lambda. In his desperation Battler agrees that it would be even better if a witch would be the culprit for this game instead of having Natsuhi framed by an incorrect truth.Virgilia who has been paying much attention to Battler’s progress since the two of them met, after hearing Battler’s words and seeing his conviction to believe in Natsuhi no matter what, uses her power by the name of Witch of Finite and declares with red that:

“Natushi is not the culprit!!”

Now 18 people left to doubt in this episode. Bernkastel offers Beatrice’s group a Plea bargain so the verdict will end with Krauss being the culprit ending with a “draw” for both sides. There’s no way that Natsuhi will accept this, however since alibis have been proven for everyone else but Natsuhi, by Hempel’s raven the CULPRIT MUST BE NATSUHI. The worst part is that if Natsuhi refuse then Beatrice will disappear according to Bern, and not only her but all her friends and furniture. However, if Natsuhi accepts they will go to the next game the next time they start over. One thing we don’t know is what will happen to this fragment. What exactly would happen to the pieces of this fragment? To this Natsuhi of the kakera? I actually wondered that when the anime was airing. I suppose that same as a chess game, the pieces are put away then a new batch comes in. Ultimately Beatrice refuses. Bernkastel of course will not her side take it back, she processes with her deadly red confirming that, “Krauss is not he culprit. And he was killed long ago, shortly after you heard his voice over the phone, get it?” Natsuhi cries over the death of her husband. Now she is all alone without a single ally and with only her honor as an Ushiromiya member left. Kinzo left her the duty to protect the family name!

Lambdadelta ends the trial and gives the final verdict saying that it was Natsuhi who did it. She was able to do it  after she left to her room. She, also killed her own husband Krauss Bern says and asks for a quick revision to the verdict as it was “only possible for Natsuhi to have done it.” Also because it was possible for a human, the court of illusions hereby denies the existence of Beatrice the golden Witch. Beato can be seen in pain but she will believe in Natushi no mater how much they try to pin this fake truth on her. In tears Natsuhi tells them that no matter how much they mock her they won’t deny the one winged crest on her heart no matter what they do. Bern isn’t enjoying this as much as she wants thus uses red to crush Natsuhi for good. Here comes the worst best part of this whole charade with Bernkastel displaying how little she cares.

“Natsuhi. When did Kinzo ever say it was okay for you to engrave the One-winged Eagle into your heart? Those were just the words of the Kinzo from your delusions, weren’t they? ……You know, the real Kinzo… Not once in his entire life did he ever trust you from the bottom of his heart, and not once did he ever consider letting you bear the family crest! The real Kinzo wouldn’t say that. Disappear. You, the illusion of Kinzo inside Natsuhi’s mind, beautified by Natsuhi to suit her own purposes. “

Kinzo appears and tries to deny it all but Bern knows that the real one wouldn’t say that. In fact she says, “Pitiful woman. You will now face the truth that you never gained Ushiromiya Kinzo’s trust as long as he lived.” Bernkastel is disgusted by Goldsmith and he is struck too. Kinzo quietly sits on the bench and remains quiet. Natsuhi knows that Kinzo never said hello.. or met her gaze even once. Natsuhi cries because she knows the truth. Kinzo was never… he never cared once.

The memories disappear just because the crime exists as it now, this level of reasoning is possible for Furudo Erika. What do you think, everyone?

Natsuhi in the Witch’s side has been utterly defeated and we’re back to the human’s side.. Right now, no humans exist on this island except for those in this parlor and with the exception, has been shown that none of them have committed the murder.. therefore, It has to be Natsuhi who did it- Erika claims. Eva who now has proof that Natsuhi killed her family is enraged and starts slapping and hitting Natsuhi over and over and over and over like this is the WWE, only real. Battler tries to stop the abuse that Eva is giving her aunt but Eva plants a sharp knee into his gut pushing him to the ground. Everyone doesn’t do a thing to stop it either since they think it’s ok for Eva to abuse the criminal also because as pieces they have “accepted” this “truth”.

Erika momentarily stops Eva’s rage with her detective authority because she only solved 2/3 of the mystery the who dunnit part, how dunit, Now she wants to know the why dunnit. She asks Natsuhi to please follow the rules of the mystery genre and confess to wrap it all up. She mentions how if it was a third-rate mystery Natsuhi would let out high pitch laughter and confess to the crime, and start telling the story of her sad past. Don’t you hate it when that happens? Natsuhi desperately wants someone to belive her, that even her daughter and husband have been killed and she is being framed for everything. Why doesn’t anyone believer her!?

Because of this game.. because Lamba had acknowledge Natsuhi was the culprit none of the pieces were able to pay heed to Natsuhi’s words no matter what she says. Beato wants the pieces to believe that a witch like her is the culprit but that’s impossible as Erika says they can’t hear her. Beatrice the golden is terminated by Erika’s perfect reasoning. She is turned into a living flesh and tossed to the goatmen and to be chewed to pieces then later to be eaten by the voyager witches. She tries to resists but she is thrown into the air and she is being torn apart by multiple goat-kuns. A quick  red slash by Dlanor A Knox stops the goatmen from ending Beatrice’s life for good. Awesome Dlanor claims that there is still someone who wishes to OBJECT. Oh, the irony. Battler knows that this is Dlanor’s way of giving him a chance to defend his case.

One of these days Battler has to stop shoving his fingers up people’s faces

Ready or not here he goes, Battler claims in blue that, Erika’s seals aren’t perfect but Erika claims that she wrote her own signature on them. Dlanor comes with her red “due to the above, the seals are guaranteed to be PERFECT. Erika were not broken by anyone, and deception is not possible”. Also for Eva is the same, Eva’s seal was of the same type of Erika’s. That is because this method of sealing was one that Erika and Eva conceived together after DINNER.” Battler cannot really do much either when it’s decided that there was nothing done to the seals. Bern takes the floor, “All of Erika’s and Eva’s seals were not tampered with in any way that hindered their abilities to act as seals such as being scrapped off”.

Beato is sad that Battler will not be able to keep his promise. Battler goes on and one using blue claims to open a small hole in Erika’s reasoning but it’s just not happening. By knox3 (it is forbidden for secret passages to exist) Dlanor refutes Batter’s claim that Erika’s lookout wasn’t perfect. By Jungfrau forces, “Lady Erika’s lookout in the lounge was perfect. There were no small gaps or carelessness or times when she looked away for even a second.” Also “Therefore, “during their entire meeting in the lounge only Rosa went up to the second floor!” But, was it really Rosa? –  Battler claims. Maybe it was somebody else or she was carrying a suitcase! Tsk. Tsk. By Knox’s 10 and further reasoning, “it is forbidden to disguise themselves as another without any clues! There have been no hints suggesting that someone had for a character to disguise herself as Rosa! Furthermore, Erika has confirmed that she wasn’t carrying any luggage large enough for a human to be in IT Maybe it was somebody else outside the island Battler claims. Are we really going back to that, Battler D: ?  That’s just not possible by Knox’s 1st: “It is forbidden for the culprit to be anyone not mentioned in the early part of the STORY!” Then maybe it was poison (poison strikes again!) or a remote murder device – Battler claims. But as we all know that’s not possible by knox’s 4th then later by the 8th Decalogue. Then “there exists a culprit other than Natsuhi” –  Battler claims. ” If you want to deny that, try and repeat in red that none of the characters shown were the culprit.” Battler is getting to desperate and I’m running out of popcorn.  Knox’s 6th – “it is forbidden for accident institution to be employed as a detective technique.So Erika maybe did it? Knowx’ s 7th: “It is forbidden for the culprit to be the culprit”

As a last resort Battler says he’s the culprit. He used slow acting poison then silently slit their throats.. by Knox’s 8th this is just not possible! Gertrude adds that,  “all deaths were homicide”. There goes your suicide theories, guys. No George killed himself theory this time either. Another red follows after Battler questions Erika’s abilities, “none of the corpses would ever lead to a mistaken autopsy.” So maybe, just maybe, body doubles, right? Totally. NOT. “No corpses exist expect for those characters have appeared in the story.” In the end Battler can only prove that Natsuhi isn’t he culprit, that’s as good as he’ll ever get in this Witch trial, if he loses Bern will banish him forever along with Beatrice and the others. Finally finding himself cornered he uses the red Virgilia gave him.. that “Natsuhi isn’t the culprit“. He knows well that he cannot “win” but he wishes to put a hole in Erika’s reasoning therefore ending the game with the culprit is not Natsuhi so it can be anyone else, However by knox’s 2nd Battler’s feeble claim is completely shattered. The witches explain that a simple human like him can’t use the red even more when by Knox’s rules he can’t use supernatural abilities to aid his claims. Only if he were to construct a truth such as the only Erika made he would be able to use it but he can’t.  When he tries to get Virgilia to repeat for him he can’t find her anywhere.  Battler is done for, along with the Legend of the Golden Witch.

Oh, no they didn’t!

Three  riddles the detective must explain in these stories: The who dunnit = who is the culprit. The how dunnit = how did they carry out the crime? and lastly the “Why dunnit” At this point, Erika on the human side starts explaining how Natsuhi did it. During 12:00 1:00 of the next day. Natsuhi went to the cousins’ room on the second floor of the guesthouse and the servant waiting room on the first floor of the mansion. There she carried out the murders. Like waiting for it, a thunderbolt strikes Battler and kills him. Dlanor approaches and stand before his dead body. In the end, Battler let Dlanor’s down too as he was unable to make a comeback after all. The witches on the witch side have won.

Meanwhile, on Erika’s side she is looking for the why dunnit part and also to get a perfect victory. Erika has confiscated Natsuhi’s diary containing how horrible she felt when she first came to the Ushiromiya’s mansion. Kumasawa and dr. Nanjo explain how in kinzo’s golden era he did whatever he pleased. Because he was looked down by many as a startup he wanted to find Krauss a wife from a noble family to raise the family status. Also because Natsuhi’s family was in deep financial trouble, not to mention they were pressed by Kinzo, Natsuhi ended up marrying Krauss. I lost even more respect for Krauss on this part. Kinzo even chose his wife?  Not that Natsuhi is a bad pick (it’s a good one) but it still remains.. Natsuhi futilely denies these claims saying that that was back then and she then came to love his husband the Ushiromiya family but since she never wrote those things in the diary no one can know if she is telling the truth. Erika will not believe her either as she won’t  believe anything but the red. That’s how they concluded that Natsuhi hated the family and came up with a plan to carry out her revenge on all of them. It is concluded that if it wasn’t Natushi then who else then Kinzo, right?

But the witches know that Kinzo is already dead at the start of all games. The way how things are going cannot be anything good for Natsuhi. Erika then takes everyone all over the mansion looking for Kinzo and they found nothing in any of the rooms. Until there’s only one room left at the end of the hallway which it is Natsuhi’s own room. They entered it and Erika and the witches conclude that only Kinzo could’ve existed in her room since he didn’t exist anywhere else by Hempel’s raven. Bern corners Krauss’ wife saying in red that, “during the night from 24:00 and morning, there exists no place for a living Kinzo to exist except in her (Natsuhi’s) bed” By a thorough search on the room and by scientific investigation Kinzo did not exist anywhere in that room from 24:00 and morning. However, her bed being the only exception. Not only that but they accuse Natsuhi of being an adulteress and in her plan to take revenge on the Ushiromiya she disguised herself as Beatrice to snare poor Kinzo away. Bern’s text follows, “Therefore, it is suspected that Ushiromiya Natsuhi and Ushiromiya Kinzo had sexual relationships with each other. Why else would a man and a woman would share the same bed at all night long.”

W.T.F. Even Natsuhi’s pride has been taken away from her. After story is then weaved up by Bernkastel with Natsuhi’s evil plan to destroy the Ushiromiya and killing everyone who stood in her way. She even had Kinzo assisted her in covering for the killings. Natsuhi tries to hit Erika for saying such atrocious claims but Eva captures her and pin her arms to her back. Back at the parlor we are shown the scenes with this game started with Erika completely putting the blame on Natsuhi. Natsuhi who cannot take it anymore admits to what she did 19 years ago so that baby so everything can end. Natsuhi admits pushing the servant away instead of helping on that day near that cliff. After that the family covered up the story the family of the servant as compensated. Natsuhi repents for a long time for what she did back then now one believes her story and much less that she is being framed. Battler’s voice can be heard across the room. “It’s all useless. Everything is really useless”.

<End of episode 33>

Let’s reason this out

Possibly the second best part of this whole episode in this part. It’s so well done, so cruel and ingenious how lies and truths can be mixed in these stories that it totally gives us that feeling that there is no real truths. The court of Illusions is made of just that – illusions where there the only truth is made up by the side that offers the best reasoning and have the best counterarguments. Anyone who have played the game or is reading these posts knows that this part of the mystery if full of holes. There are many things that don’t fit well. I know what happens next but I don’t recall everything that was presented therefore don’t pay much attention if what it is here doesn’t completely fits with the last part of the EP5 which should be the final post for this EP. Also tomorrow is tourney day again and since I survived the first twilight round I’m up to go against another blog. You can vote for this blog at aniblogtourney.wordpress.com tomorrow on May15th and for other blogs you like. Polls are open for a week. Uh, not expecting to win against the other well established blog as I’ll need every vote I could get, but it wouldn’t hurt to get additional votes in case you do enjoy reading these entries such as I do. In any case, thank you for doing so if you do.

As usual additional theories and thoughts are much welcomed so let’s start this.

> Genji’s death – He was killed prior to 1:00. Based on the red, Eva sealed Genji up to no one should’ve entered the room, right? So by the time he was found in the morning he was already dead. Meaning he was killed before Eva sealed him up. So who was the last one to come close to Genji? Eva herself, right? Isn’t that the same as asking who saw him last like Eva accused Natsuhi of the same for Kinzo? Eva didn’t mention how she was the “last one” to see (in this case come near) Genji. She knew that he was killed the next day BUT she doesn’t mention that. Because of the seal she was the last corroborate that his death could only have happened prior to the time she sealed up his door. Once again, somebody is not cooperating. Next!

> Seeing Rosa Off – Now why would Eva see Rosa off, huh? That felt very out of place if you ask me, as no killings have been committed up to that moment! Sure the gold has been found but there wouldn’t be that much reason to go with Rosa. Eva being considerate of her siblings is strange if you ask me so there must be a reason why she wanted to “see Rosa off”. Maybe she just wanted to get away for a moment too. No, I doubt it. She would get right back at the conference so she doesn’t miss a thing.  I suspect she went with Rosa because there was something to be discussed at that moment that either Eva or Rosa didn’t want the others at the parlor to hear. If we remember even in EP3 Rosa is killed after she speaks with Eva. In that episode it has to do with the Witch’s gold, so I can only imagine that the topic was the same. Did Rosa say or do something bad that got her killed? Or that was not part of the plan? Did something happen when Eva saw Rosa off?

> Dr. Nanjo and English – I’m just throwing this out there. Some of the copies they find at the storeroom were in English. The narrator mentions how both him and Erika has no problems with since they were good at it.

> Genji’s time of death – This is also strange. It sounds as if Genji was the first one to go. I said in my first VN episodic entries that Maybe Genji was the last one who was killed? It’d make sense.” but according to Bern’s fake truth it sounded as if Genji was the first one to be killed then the cousins. Now, why would the killer leave Genji’s body like that instead of hiding it? Wouldn’t you hide it in case someone entered the room? This wouldn’t be weird if he was the “last one to die” but he was the first.. that would hinder the killer’s plan to kill the rest at the guesthouse if he/she was found out. Also I’m sure the killer if he or she was found at the guesthouse would rather kill the people at the place is he/she is already in than the people found in the other mansion, right? Does that make sense? I mean, it seems troublesome to go back and forth without killing the first group you’re already at.

But check this out. By this reasoning we could speculate that according to that order of who died first the chances of finding out who the killer is would be based on what group was killed first.. so the one at the guesthouse or at the mansion’s (Genji)?

> Kinzo’s illusion – Damn that Kinzo. They destroyed that scene we saw in EP1 with Natsuhi getting some recognition from Kinzo. I really liked that part! Now, it’s just an illusion like all others.

> Battler’s promise – there is a moment when Beatrice is sad that Battler doesn’t remember his promise when he says When did I break any promises to you. Then she says “maybe hell isn’t so bad after all”  So I’m assuming that his sin is part of that promise he doesn’t remember. Why would Beatrice say such thing then?

> Krauss being killed right after the call – Ok, I reasoned out before that maybe his voice got recorded or something but thanks to the red we can be sure that he was killed shortly after the call. Wait, wouldn’t that mean that he was imprisoned and gagged in his own room, therefore that last call came from Krauss’s own room? If my reasoning is correct and Krauss wasn’t moved to
his room after he was killed (based on the blood found) we can now deduce that that call was made from Natsuhi’s husband’s very room if in fact he was killed there. We do not know where his body is at, but if we know that he was killed in that room we can be sure that the call was made from his room while he was captured. Possibly being tied to the bed or the culprit covered his body with that sheet then stabbed him so the blood would pour right onto the sheets. Seeing there’s not much point of leaving evidence it might been possible that he was murdered in his own bed.

> On the whole bed evidence – “during the night from 24:00 and morning, there exists no place for a living Kinzo  to exist except in her (Natsuhi’s) bed” they said in red. Ok, I know these claims are full of fake truths but according to the scientific proof Erika says that there were indications of Kinzo being in Natsuhi’s bed. How is that even possible except Kinzo got near the place? Was there some actual proof like Kinzo’s hair or the remains of his corpse (burned), (the ring) that managed to get in Natsuhi’s bed, planted by the culprit or something similar. Very disconcerting, that part even if this is the great court of Illusions at its best.

> Why wasn’t Battler killed? – Well, he is the main character and he is always killed last but why go through the trouble of framing Natsuhi for it when they could’ve killed everyone like in past games? EP5 takes a very different route on this episode focusing on “blaming” something, in this case Natsuhi is blamed from start to finish. Now, seeing that putting the blame on someone is an indication of someone ‘gaining’ something out of this, I theorize that the killer of this arc really wanted Battler to be the next family head and not have to deal with Natsuhi getting in the way. All the siblings already approved of this and the servants shouldn’t care that much unless they’re let go. Even then Battler being the head doesn’t give them anything in exchange. The motive of this crime seems to be no other than the intentions of the man of 19 years ago – retribution or just plain hatred and vengeance.

As they say, simply by all these clues this level of reasoning is possible. What do you think, everyone?

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26 thoughts on “Umineko no Naku Koro Ni – 33 ~Chiru~EP5 – Let the Great Court of Illusions begin! Burn the Witch Beatrice the Golden

  1. Great and huge post. I’ll take my time to read it tomorrow when I have free time. I had thought that you were done with Umineko posts, but it seems you still aren’t :D

    • I think it’ll be a while until I’m done making them. There are certain parts in the VN that are just hard to keep record making it hard to blog about :D

  2. Yay…you finally updated on this…keep up the great work
    I am wondering…are you going to do a part by part analysis of EP6 when it is translated too?

    • Yes. Seeing that When they cry fans have shown interest and the VN episodics have gotten positive feedback I think that I should also work on EP6 when it is fully translated in a couple of months. Lots of lessons learned from working on this EP.

  3. wow. Great post.

    About the bed thing. Wasn’t it supposed to be living Kinzo? rest of a corpse or a ring is not a living one. and also the fact they established a red truth so easily without giving a reason it is strange. Yes, we know that Kinzo is dead at this point but maybe this would be useful to destroy some other red truths. Who knows.

    The vote blog says your blog goes tomorrow. I hope I remember it in order to vote you.

    • It is up now. Bernkastel says she is referring to ‘Living Kinzo’ from that point on. It is still terribly dismaying how they could’ve constructed their claims and make it a red truth so easily without much proof. Like Virgilia says when referring to Erika’s reasoning, it cannot be everything based on lies so there must be some “truth” to this scientific proof found, of course, this truth isn’t the same as the fake one that Bernkastel and Erika have created.

  4. This is my first time commenting, but I’ve been following the Umineko entries for a while now. They are quite helpful, because I tend to forget crucial details after a while, but most of the time I’m to lazy to take notes while reading.

    Concerning ‘Living Kinzo’ in the bed.
    I understood it just as an excersize to destroy Natsuhi’s spirit. It was the ultimate way to destroy her alibi, because it all depended on Kinzo existing – in any kind of warped state – on the island during the murders.
    But there are so many evidences pointing against Kinzo’s existence anywhere, that the only place for him to be during that crucial time, was at the very point where Natsuhi was, because it was the only place unobserved by others.

    Well, Episode 6 gives further insight on the topic of how exactly the witches can construct the red truth (like how they limited Kinzo’s place of existence) within the story…at least I think I understood it now (unless Episode 7 turns it on it’s head again).

    And it’s actually quite important, I think, that Eva saw Rosa off, that’s right…I totally pushed that aside due to other puzzles during Episode 5.
    Reading those entries actually made me psyched for Episode 7 again.

    • Welcome, first time commenter.

      The witch’s side was using process of elimination (I think) so I’m assuming that by Hempel’s raven they reached the conclusion that if living Kinzo doesn’t exist outside the mansion and not in any of the others ones then he could’ve only existed in Natsuhi’s room after checking all of the rooms. How exactly did Erika ‘missed’ him with the detective power, is what bugs me even if they were playing with words back then. Well, like you said, EP6 should shed greater light on how exactly the red truth are constructed making such things possible.

      Right now my understanding is that red truths are more like “well made fallacies” in which if the other person doesn’t know the exception to the rule (therefore, proving the fallacy wrong) then the fake truth becomes real truth. Well, those are my 2 cents.

      • And you caught another one. Also my first post here after a longer time of reading-only ;) (But it was more a problem of catching up with the large Umineko posts after discovering the blog)

        Really this is good stuff your writing. I especially liked the chess move articles as they really help focusing at the matters at hand. Noticed many connections I overread while dealing with the novels.

        But back to this comments: I found this idea about fallacies quite interesting. But I think its not the red text itself which is the problem. Most of this statements are not even reasoning but simply facts. And thats why IMO in the end they are just the hard facts they were meant to be and nothing about them is a lie. It think the problem lies in what the watcher/reader/observer constructs out of this facts. I would even say that its one of Ryu07s most potent tricks to make you put the puzzle together the wrong way without noticing by applying common sense at all the wrong places.

        Making this a bit clearer I always thought of this in comparison to math: What the reader does it coming to the conclusion that 1 + 1 = 2. There is obviously nothing wrong with the equation (logic reasoning) and the values aren’t wrong either (using the hard facts given in red) but the very idea of adding them is wrong in the context presented so the whole process is useless. ;P

        For me Nanjos murder in EP3 is the prime example for this problem. By the web of red truth the game is trying to convince us that this setting is presented in a “complete” way and so the murder is impossible. But its just complete in the mind of the reader because you are adding assumptions which were not stated by applying common sense to carelessly. In the end Battler presents the problem to us how the maximum count of people on the island + number of people dead + stating who is dead doesn’t result in the automatic conclusion that no one was left to do it. But it’s not the facts that are wrong but how everybody at first associated the number of deaths with all the dead people mention because its made sense that Eva-B was talking about the same people even if this was never declared as hard facts. And so the illusion of a perfect murder (aka a lie) results just by putting it together the wrong way. (Even if Battler was kick in the butt for this blue truth at the end of EP4… but thats besides the point ^^)

        But Ryu07 already did this with Higurashi (in a much more noticable way) with this motif of syringes and people injected committing suicides after rampaging / killing. You assume that this is a horror story and there is a pattern to this insanity to be found and this motif pops up again and again so you think its part of the mystery. But in the end every occurrence of this motif has a different story to tell and “adding them up” to a pattern is a dead end. You’re again betrayed by drawing your “careless” conclusions (and the unreliable PoV of the story of cause ^^).

        Back to Erikas trial: I guess thats also the point to this “perfect” truth crafted by Erika and Bern. IMO there will be just one aspect to this construct thats is so unintuitive or outrageous that you won’t came up with this idea because it violates common sense but still makes perfect sense in this twisted and crazy setup presented over all this games. And with the addition of this one fact everything about this trial will crumble.

        Problem is there ends me reasoning as I also have no idea was it is. ^^ But I guess those crazier fan theories like “There were no deaths in some twilights and its all a planned charade” or “Someone unthinkable like Battler is responsible” could be a good start to think outside the box ;)
        Perhaps Battler even stated a big clue to what we have to search for himself in his flurry of blue text in EP4 (EP4 because EP1-4 should have a “complete” presentation of the mystery incl. this hint if he is at all aiming for an orthodox type of detective story) and we laughed about how absurd it is to assume it. (That would be the type of clever writing I would expect from Ryu07 ^^)

        Just my … ehhm…. 200 cent about it. :D

        • Thanks for the compliment! I hope you enjoyed reading all the Umineko entries :D

          Yeah, chess moves are totally mandatory part of this investigation as they serve the purposes of further exploring certain parts of the mystery that can be “solved” or “challenged”. Also they can present a clearer view of the mystery and help understand certain aspects that hasn’t been that much explored or mentioned even in the game. I think of them as I go but I usually make them once or twice a month. It was initially meant to go with the episodes of the anime version but I continue to write them even after it was over to anyone who wishes to solve them on their own.

          I still have plenty of pieces and moves to make.

          Well, I feel like giving you a round of applause. I have to say that I’m pleased with your reasoning. It doesn’t violate any facts yet it opens other interpretations of the mystery. I see your point and I think you’re onto something there theorizing about the red truths and how the red is constructed. How “right” it can be yet “wrong” at the same time can easily be determined by the observer. Or once again the unreliable narrator.

          Welcome to the chessboard, reader :D

          • Thanks for the praise but in the end I have to wait and see what EP6 gives up to work with which is still a few month away as the language barrier will stop me until there is finally the first translation patch.
            And its also totally misleading to read the small aspect discussions of those who already read EP6 in January as this type of story simply cannot be understood with small story parts out of context. So I avoid them most of the time.
            And as there doesn’t seem to be anyone on the net who try to make a brief but complete run down of what is going on in EP6 at all (like the many summary of EP5) besides confusion and incomprehensible spoilers the curiosity if this works or is a dead end will still kill for a while ;P

            But about the articles: I really think those topical essays are a great way to deal with this game. I was never a friend of constructing theses grand master theories where everything gets explained and is make to fit but more interested in understanding the contradictions with are presented by specific aspects of the stories and how to resolve them. In this way the talk about the servants and the weapons were a great read. Before I really never noticed what a variety of option for murder weapons Ryu07 implicitly put into the game with his warped representation of reality besides the in-your-face obvious twilight death results. (e.g. totally overlooked how the Golden Bow snake thingy could be connected to the hanging with ropes… guess to much time went by between me reading EP3 and 4 ^^)
            Looking forward to see more of this.

      • Red truths are truths. The witches just happen to use truths which imply something, which isn’t always true, or talk about useless things that while we might think they are connected to what we discuss, they truly have no connection to it.

        Example: “No more than 18 people are in the island” – Pretty much everyone thought that there were 18 people on the island, and that this proved it. But instead, there can be less than 18, since Kinzo is dead, thus making it 17. The truth is truth, they simply provide a fact that is pointless (more than 18, when in reality the fact we needed was that there were only 17 people) and they imply something (there are in total 18 people) when in fact that’s irrelevant or false (there’s only 17).

  5. I remember when I read this. It made me feel completely helpless, as Erika’s red appear so easily and there were far too many unknown things to try to help Natsuhi. And it was rather amazing and disturbing how fake truths were created so easily with a mix of true and false facts. It certainly made me paranoid the whole time.

    About Battler not being killed.
    When I was reading that part, I began to question why Battler was the one the killer wanted. Natsuhi being framed is a bit obvious, since Krauss, useless and incompetent as he may be, is the supposed next head, she needs to go. She can’t be killed because it’d be suspicious. After all, she’s reluctant to accept that Battler is the new head so easily. But I think that the killed chose Battler carefully. After all, if George or Jessica were to be the new heads, Natsuhi or Eva would immediately protest and chaos would ensue. Battler seems like a “neutral” character in the siblings war. He had been “missing” for 6 years and doesn’t really care about the Ushiromiyas. So the adults may try to take advantage of this and the fact that he wouldn’t have someone who would “protect” them, like Natsuhi or Eva. So, maybe the killer planned on leaving everyone in a “peaceful” state. That way, no one would try to interfere and go killing, creating unnecessary ruckus for the killer’s plan to frame Natsuhi.
    Then again, I haven’t read the novels for a while, so I might be quite off about this.

    And it really tore me learning that all the nice Kinzo scenes with Natsuhi were fake. I think that, out of the adults, Natsuhi has got it the worst. Kinzo never trusting her, her having an idiotic husband and being forced into a marriage, having a daughter whom she doesn’t get along well, being always mocked and put down by Eva, having to deal with massive debts and supporting the whole family by herself, then her daughter and husband die… I’m surprised she didn’t snap sooner.

    • When I played that part I was thinking if they can make “fake” red truths so easily then what else could they be lying about? I started thinking that much of the red in previous games such as masterkeys and others could’ve been lies. So paranoia was there the whole time even after I finished the game.

      I go back to why the killer didn’t kill everyone like in past games. EP5 is very strange, maybe the strangest all of in which how the mystery is “different” from the past games. What would have happened if the witches wouldn’t have stopped the game at the end and let things continue? Would the killer have killed everyone on the island? Let a single survivor, i.e. Battler go like Eva “survived” EP3 and became head? Because the game is stopped, therefore, the killing cease we are led to believe that one of the survivors is the killer of this arc. Even if I’m right or wrong, the game tells me that one of the current survivors “must” be the killer.

      Isn’t this like in Higurashi when we thought the culprit was A person because the real culprit (B) wasn’t “known” or revealed we were led to wrongly assume the killer was A because the story didn’t progress further?

      It really is one huge clingerhanger how EP5 ends with the cat box only slightly half opened.

  6. Actually, there are two things I don’t think you included in your post. Maybe I missed them. First, Erika’s theory was wrong from the start because the killings could have only happened before 1:00am, and the game states clearly that Rosa left the reunion with Battler at that time. So, Rosa couldn’t have gotten killed during that time since she was with Battle and the others. And thus Erika’s theory is wrong.

    What annoys me is Battler. No, not in the mini bomb, not in the stupid annoying way. There’s the thing that he might be the killer, or an accomplice. The true time of the crime is between Battler’s scream and when everyone got to the room to see what had happened. Now, we get into two theories. One, Battle was able to, in that small time, kill everyone and paint the magic drawings on the wall. Or second, he screamed, and an accomplice helped him kill everyone and make the drawings. I think I should replay the game thinking like this to see if there’s any possibilty. But yhea, I agree that Eva probably killed at least one person in this game.

    • I think that’s part of the last part of the game the “???” tea party section. I don’t remember much about it but I vaguely recall that it opens some of the possibilities that you mentioned. So maybe what you mentioned probably happens there, I’ll have to replay that last part to get the final whole picture of the game and make one final theory of what’s the “situation” for that episode. Sigh.. so much red sometimes just plain screws me over. It’s really hard to remember and to make them be consistent with the previous ones.

      Yeah, Battler being the culprit OR even accomplice makes me mad. I mean, when I see the game pull something like that I go, “do we REALLY need this?” I mean, really? BATORA of all people? He couldn’t kill a fly! The game first they tell you he can’t be then they tell you that he can because of whatever “x” possibility. EP5 was weird.

      Heh, somehow this ended up as a mini rant from my part. Oh yeah, I’ll be replaying that part.

      • Dammit, you’re right. Battler says that when he comes back from “death” and “starts thinking again”. But the part about Rose isn’t limited to that, since this is the trial part.

        To the second part of your post: Meta-Battler wasn’t in control of his piece. Bern was. That’s even pointed out in a weird way to answer the question of why is Battler able to solve the epitaph in this game.

      • ” ‘do we REALLY need this?’ I mean, really? BATORA of all people? He couldn’t kill a fly!”

        Sorry to again jump out at this statement and blow it out of proportions but when I read this I immediately thought: “Well what DO we really know about this guy to draw clear conclusions about him?”…
        Don’t get me wrong. I also don’t think Battler is the type of guy to run around the island with a gun or another weapon and to mutilate his relatives in nightmarish ways…. that kind of answer would be a punch in the face to every reader out there as he is a really likable character as the “normal guy” of the story and the stories tries to put the reader “in his shoes” at so many occasions that this solution would be insulting.

        So whats my point? Looking more closely Battler is characterized quite differently then most of the other characters (at least among the cast of “real” people). Most of the family members get the usual treatment of animes to put them in contest of the setup by presenting key scenes of their past with flashbacks (we have stuff like George’s holiday trip, Shannons mirror, Rosa’s “business trips”, Maria’s everyday adventures, Ange’s childhood, Eva’s teenager frustrations, Kyries talk about jealousy etc. etc.).
        And its no wonder as this type of story construction just simply works. Those KEY VNs (with are said to have influenced Ryu07 in building the When They Cry stories) throw around with tragic memories of the past all the time with big emotional impact and even “kids shows” as One Piece (‘kids’ as in not made to be highly intellectually challenging) do this quite often, so its seems just straight forward enough to use for almost anything. :P

        But Battler is really different from this as we don’t actually get to know much about him. Yes okay… he likes mystery stuff, is a pervert etc. but besides this everyday characteristics we know very few things about his personal history besides what is inferred through the stories about others (especially his direct family and his small similarities to his grandfather). He is almost exclusively characterized by his thoughts and opinions of all the others, his reasoning (or moral conflicts while this reasoning) and his action and opposition to his enemies. And even those action are most of the time staged in an strange “fantasy world”. (It also doesn’t help that we also get all this infos right out of his minds PoV.) And by his long departure from the family it almost seem as if all this problem in the family have simply nothing to with him as a whole … as if he was a mere observer. And this is a rather fitting place for him as he somehow in a weird way still mimics the role of a detective in a mystery story who often also has no personal involvement in his case. Except Beato says otherwise: With this talk about his sin she imply that he has a big role in causing the chaos and death on the island. And the reader still doesn’t get to solve this contradiction. In this regards he’s almost as mysterious as Beato herself. So we can conclude that there is still a really important part of his characters unmentioned or obscured which gives me the feeling as if we still don’t understand anything.

        So what WAS the point of this wall-of-text? Characterization in When They Cry can be rather complex and deceptive and thats why I’ve become careful with those statements like “that can never the answer”. Look at Bern-chan! ^^ All those people who wanted to see the continuation of little cute likable Rika in her got slapped harder and harder in the face as the story went on even if her role for Battler and the plot never actually changed. It was just the context of her actions that got clearer and thats what made her look soooo horrible. (… and their is also “Droopy-tan” and demon-possessed Shmion and many others in Higurashi)
        But K1 is perhaps the best example as the predecessor of Battler. He at first seemed like the perfect funny / nice / good guy but as his character gets filled with more background outside the village and he’s living through many extreme events you see that he’s also not always the pure white of the story you may think of him at first but more ambiguous like many of the others. Does that make him a bad guy? Not even remotely. But it gives a clearer idea how When They Cry is always about this grey-to-black morality idea…. and perhaps Battler fit in there somewhere to.

        Again: I cannot see him as a murderer caring a weapon except in high paranoia or self defense and I also don’t see him scheming some mastermind plot for all of this. He has no skills in poker faces and acting like all his enemies do. What we also CAN likely conclude from his statements and opinions is that he had a rather simply life with few sign of hardship til now. He doesn’t every show any of the cynicisms and disenchanted reaction of Ange who always had to fight for what was important to her and he seems rather scarred for live by all this murders.

        Sp how could he be responsible? This all points against his involvement, BUT he is also a very easy to tricky and easily trusting person and there is a whole family he WANT to trust. My idea: Perhaps he just became a pawn in the evil game of the family is playing here and he just didn’t notice how what he is doing is more morally objectionable then the sugar-coated version he is feed makes him believe.
        Or his sin really just revolves around how he is the often cited butterfly that caused the storm (through a “minor” misstep in the past) and he doesn’t get the whole picture of cause and effect…. and I love how this motif is literally omnipresent in the story. Almost screaming that the whole 2 day were just bad luck / fate toying with this 18 people for the lulz. ;)

        The one pain in the a** for this idea is how Battler always is the PoV for everything and it’s just absurd to assume that he would ignore connection to thoughts that should be obvious for him just to obscure the story (which he isn’t aware of as a character)… So there is almost no room for some kind of charade involving him besides EP5 where it is stated (as Sacchi said) that he isn’t “himself”.
        But their must be some point in the story so make his background so vague and this suggestions of his involvement in the events later on.

        The longer this gets the more I realize I perhaps should let you make something out of this when the time is right… ;P
        That seems like potent stuff and I’m spinning in circles here somehow as it seems.

        • Ah, don’t worry. Umineko discussions about the very “core” of the mystery can go on for hours. That’s why I have to make several separate posts. Comments help to quickly get some thoughts and theories out there that can also evolve into future entries.

          We’re moving into an unavoidable conflict of morals vs reality. Whether it is possible for a person to commit atrocious crimes just because s/he is “able to” or to believe s/he could’ve because we “believe they just wouldn’t”. As usual my take on it is that I measure everything in the logical sense possible. While I think that someone characters “wouldn’t” commit crimes (take your pick) because of their nature, my most dominant critical and logical side tells me that while “it is possible” or “able” for a character to commit a crime he or she is not 100% clear of suspicion.

          I may only deem certain characters (such as some servants) as accomplices rather than the real culprit because it “makes sense” to me. For example, the Ushiromiya clearly would have different intentions and much to gain from it, but at the same time they also lose much. Also we cannot completely dismiss the servants as possible culprits for similar reasons. We’re kinda walking in circles unless we prove that there is no reasons or way for a person to be responsible for the killings. And that’s exactly what we’re trying to fix here.

          Battler, as you mentioned, is not considered to be culprit in past games because the way the story goes it practically tells us that the culprit is “somebody else”. There is the possibility that he CAN be as long as it is possible for him but we assume that he “isn’t” because of logic (i.e. doesn’t feel right) or simple sympathy, therefore, my mini-rant above.

          Also there’s that red that Virgilia tells him earlier in my episode 30 stating that, “Battler isn’t the culprit. Battler didn’t kill anyone. This can be said for all games.”

          I remember that red statement because it made much sense to me that he was not the culprit because it made sense to me even without hearing that red from Virgilia. However, what you said is much true, we do not know if there was a time when he either eagerly or unintentionally help the real culprit. So what you say it’s very possible. The way I see it the way in which the killings are constructed can be a combination of different and separate events. For example it can be similar to a chessboard where there are moves that killer makes in order to “win” and there are others moves the other side (the white side) makes. Maybe in all those of moves there was a “bad move” one either side leading to an intentional or unintentional event for example not revealing all information as we’ve seen in EP5 or lying about alibis, which helped the real culprit in his or her rampage. Simply by these comments, this level of reasoning is possible. What do you think, everyone?

          Well, you’re touching on the future chess moves partially covering the 7th move concerning the Whydunnit part which gives us insight on why a certain group could be considered the culprits of the story (the continuation of that move would be the Ushiromiya part). As Sacchi mentions EP5 tells us that there is a possibility that Battler can be the culprit because Bern as controlling him. Very strange but possible because as it is discussed here we don’t know much about his past.

          The next moves in which these topics are mentioned should cover in greater length what is mentioned here. I’ll be sure to include some of these comments :D

          • Thanks for the quick response. Nice to see someone taking the time of some longer reasoning comments for a change. It’s obviously not every cup of tea as I more often got ignored for those kind of “wall-of-text” conclusions then commented (obviously chose the wrong places to post ^^). Really curious about your final conclusion about the EP5 game and the future chess move analyses. ^^

            But back on topic (and this time a little more focused):
            You’re right with Virgilia’s truth. It obviously restricts my idea about Battler much more then my own PoV problems. Almost silly how a forgot that part but with so much facts and counter facts thrown around in this story it’s sometimes hard to keep track of what we really know until point x in time (and I usually leave those charts and big collections of note to other people and I’m happy with reading and thinking about that stuff even if I lose perspective sometimes). But as I said a really bland and direct violation of this specific truth would have resulted in a really disappointing conclusion anyway.

            I subscribe to this multiple culprits / multiple “mastermind” plots intermingling theories you suggested as well even if I think that there is a big dose of butterfly effect mix in for further confusion. So I see your point. And it’s supported really strongly with all this “open war” going on in EP3 between the witches (suggesting multiple parties with different intentions working against each other). There was also this slightly cryptic end of game TIP about the titles of “Endless” vs “Golden” witch (and how this ideas mix to something completely new) which seemed to me as a hint how most people on the island seem to mix two different parts of this legends complex and someone may even deliberately take advantage of this confusion and the superstitions.

            But I would be careful with argumentation about something like “bad moves” at this point. I often saw fans of Higurashi label individual Umineko arcs as “the worst case shrew up for the culprit scenario” and stuff like that because this concepts existed in Higurashi. But not only was applying to many of Higurashi rules to Umineko IMO an intentionally laid trap in Ryu07 part but Battler himself had to learn again and again how evaluating the “move” (in essence the fundamental idea behind chessboard thinking) without a complete view on all pieces of the game board AND a full set of the rules to play by will only will make you play mirror-matches against your own mind. And the “slightly half opened cat box” you mentioned is anything but an open declaration of any of this. The game even gets suspended so we don”t even see the full consequences this time. The rules to the game are still the very topic of this mystery and the ulterior motives of the witches (and in extension the real culprit(s) ) are always hard to pin point with all this trolling and fake intentions in the meta world.
            And to make it even worse of a confusion there was this “venomous trap intentionally place in EP5” mention in one of the interviews with Ryu07 with fans discussed endlessly and resulted in even more paranoia. There was so many changes to the story structure that you don’t even know where to assume this specific trap.
            So I rather leave this judging of the “moves” out of me conclusions when its leads on major assumptions about the rules of the game.

            One final point I noticed as noteworthy in this reasoning about Battlers involvement in the crimes (and sorry if I’m jumping a little bit ahead in time) was Berns reaction to Battlers final reasoning in the tea party. She was highly amused by his claims but also crafted the phase “Then there were no Ackroyd” or something similar which caught my attention as whenever Bern starts contemplating about the game with cryptic references I suspect something important per default :P The “Then there were none” part is obvious but I didn’t not know what to do with this ‘Ackroyd’… in the end I looked it up. Short version: I found “The Murder of Roger Ackroyd” also by Christi and the controversy around its wicked twist that for the first time the “Watson” was presented as the culprit in such a tale. Fits really well into this problem, doesn’t it? I still don’t know if the reaction was directed at the absurdity of this idea tossed around or the irony of combining THE classical orthodox detective story with an absolutely Knox-defying answer but I found it really intriguing how this is subtly pointing to a famous example were this setup was (seemingly) used with great success. As I didn’t even know this story before I obviously don’t know how it’s constructed and which devices were used to mislead the reader but perhaps there is more to this in the end as Umineko had so many obvious references to the first of both from the start.

            And at last your point about this dilemma with morality vs reality: I agree with you that this is a central part of the problem since Battler decided to search for THE truth instead of just fitting everything thrown at him into the puzzle to avoid losing the game. Even Ronove mentioned this with his “what would/should be done” vs “what could be done” earlier on in EP5.
            But I think this is scratching on a much bigger topic which IMO will be one of the big aspects of “the core”: this whole weird logic vs. magic conflict in all the games. By the time of EP5 you can substitute those 2 word with many other interpretations as a whole world was build around it but I usually rephrase it as “reasoning vs. believing” and thought for some time about WHY Ryu07 build this story around it in this weird way. But one thing is for sure: with all this talk about the power and restrictions of “magic” and some many people repeating again and again ‘Without love….’ its reaches through the whole story with its challenge against common sense.
            And I’m really interested to see how you will fare with the answers as you stated multiple times how you will approach this primary by the means of pure logical reasoning. Because from my perspective this story seems really dead set on “proving” how only applying logic to everything is not the answer in this (games?) world. Ryu07 already challenged the reader to this in his promo texts for the games (I mean this stuff on the WitchHunt site about if reasoning is possible etc.) questioning if anyone will be able to deal with this story with the tools of logic. And this idea seems at full force in EP5. Not only is “pure cold logic” shown in a very despicable way by deconstruction all the traits of famous detectives and putting it together to form a really dislikable character but there is also this change in Battlers fighting style. The fight in Kinzos study about his existence seem to me like the most direct representation of this conflict. Battler arguments result in a big victory over Erika/Dlanor but this claims were really ridiculous and Erika stated how this went against everything common sense. But he still got the approval of the whole family for this. Was this sound logical reason? No way! But the reaction still “made sense” after all we knew about this family. The legacy of Kinzos live simply weighted much more to all of them then all logically conclusions and so Erika lost all her power even with the best evidences and methods of researching (perhaps thats why she was raging so much: here ideals were trampled upon pretty hard). Proving anything beyond this point was simple useless as this was now a question of believe. A really interesting construction I have to admit.
            I bet we will see this pattern again near the final revelations of the games on a grander scale.

            Why would I bet on that? I don’t know if you are familiar with the topics of those extra TIPs essays he release independently of the games or if you read them what you think about them but after reading them I got the idea that he didn’t just build this main conflict to present a strange riddle but he had a rather far reaching philosophical and sophisticated message in mind from the start. And when I watched closely a even notice how he intentionally push some of the dilemmas the story deals with right onto the reader on some more abstract meta-level. (e.g. as I understood it those texts suggested that the whole fan discussion if the red can be trusted at all was all JUST AS PLANNED and it was clearly constructed this way to have no answer on the story level).

            But I guess this this is digressing a bit to much even for this train of thoughts. Also I think this will fit much better when you get to the “dream meeting” with Virgilia later on. So I finally leave it at that for now. :D

  7. Pingback: Blogging Umineko Chiru EP 5 – #33 – Let the Court of Illusions begin! Burn the Witch Beatrice the Golden | Tea Party

  8. “She is turned into a living flesh and tossed to the goatmen and to be chewed to pieces then later to be eaten by the voyager witches.”

    I didn’t think Bern and Lambda were serious when said they were going to eat her…right?
    ;~;

    • probably they weren’t but they have regularly been joking about cannibalism more than once, like those human eating demons from Higurashi. Whenever it’s mentioned it always makes me skin crawl because we can never tell if they are being serious or not.

    • Well those witches seem to have really much fun talking about their Angeburgers and stuff but I often thought the this barbaric goatmen get a slightly less disturbing context if you see them as a metaphor. To be more precise: if you link those many appearances of the goats to the idea of a spreading fire many scenes still make sense from the Anti-Fantasy side of things.

      If you look that this trial of illusions a bit more distanced this is obviously a witches’ trial… not only in the sense that its make by witches and to kill a witch but also with the implication that most real witch trials were nothing more then a unfair farce with totally different ulterior motives.
      “And what do we do with witches?” (insert Monty Python here ;P )

      But their is also Rosa and Maria being chased out of the mansion in EP2 (after the roam freely and in increasing numbers in the mansion itself). The text even stated something like “lava-like” butterflies around them IIRC.
      Those goats always seem like the the “zombies” of Umineko with they silent strong-in-masses but stupid and somehow frail image and this idea to devour people. But thats fits a spreading fire as well.
      And then there is Kinzos / Battler / the kids in EP1&2 who get eaten by goats / demons in contrast to Kinzo getting burned in the boiler. Even the after-death-pictures in the TIPs seem to be similar with this red patches put all over them when they are “eaten by demons” and burned by fire.

      I know this theory is quite shaky as there are enough other scenes with goats which don’t fit this metaphor at all but it still gives these crazy goatmen a much less disturbing context….

      On the other side: Why Bern and Lambda seem to like cannibalism to much… no clue.

      • I have my own take on the whole cannibalism in Umineko. You’ll probably see it at Tea Party.

        I gave it a few spins back then but what I usually concluded was the goatmen were related to servants. Or lackies = accomplices in the killings. Or that it symbolized raw strength rather than polished/effective methods. Fascinating take on the goatmen from you though. I never thought of it that way. For me the sisters of purgatory seem to have easier to speculate meaning than the goatmen of this story.

        Btw, this is how I view more or less the witch’s s side of the story according to me. I don’t know what the others think of it but I’m confident in my reasoning.

        Goatmen = grotesque deaths or melee/heavy weapons.
        Sister of Purgatory = demon stakes/sharp objects in general.
        Siesta Sisters = fire weapons (as it is mentioned)
        Demons = an specific character in the story or a metaphor relating to their abilities.
        Eiserne Jungfrau = a checkmate placed on the accused (presumed culprit) through investigation, logic or common sense. This is equivalent to “death”/sent to jail/game over if found guilty.

        The witch = Of course, the mastermind is the real human culprit of the story who governs over its lackies (accomplices) and orders them (uses weapons/methods) to carry out the killings (win the game). Well, that’s the rundown of it, I’ll probably had to elaborate further to better explain this point but that’s the general idea from my side. Simply by the existence of goat-kuns and Angel Mort uniforms this level of reasoning was possible. What do you think, everyone?

        • “I have my own take on the whole cannibalism in Umineko. You’ll probably see it at Tea Party. ”
          Looking forward to this :D

          Even without explanations I see your point as it doesn’t differ that much from my interpretation. I guess this idea about goats = brute force also works fine for many scenes.
          But it always struck me as odd that they are the “Faceless” and void of any personality (besides Goat-kun & friends in EP3) in contrast to all other furnitures and characters before and after. That’s why I always thought of them as something non-human or not linked to persons / characters / whatever.

          For the rest its almost the same for me.
          The stakes are linked to the murder weapons multiple times and the name of the Siestas also suggest the link to the shotguns on the island. But I’m still really irritated why this idea get distorted so much. If they are “just” the guns why link them to grabbing people to far places (aka your rope idea in the Chess Moves about the weapons) and all this techno-babble, computer jokes and sniping? I guess there is a trick to this girl’s metaphorical meaning as the whole guns idea is just to straight forward after this stuff about the Stakes (aka smelling are trap there ^^).
          But I at least admit that it’s always something about ranged assaults in contrast to the stakes.

          For the demons and Dlanor team while I agree with you I think I’ll just just wait til you deal with them in the TeaParty as IMO they are much more interesting to analyze on an individual case basis and while characters like Ronove and Virgilia are really obviously are hinted to in the story their are also much more tricky cases and subtler aspects to them.

          For the THE witch or even all witches:
          “of course, the mastermind” just doesn’t cut it for me. While Beatos doing = culprits doing minus magic seems like the always proclaimed straight forward answer, I was always thrilled about the multi-layer interpretation potential the story created for all that is magic and witch work.
          While Beato as the literal culprit stand-in works Bern also suggested in the EP1 tea party how Beato may not be a person but more of an abstract concept representing the rules of the chessboard (perhaps she is even thinking about an analogy to “the Rules” of Higurashi).
          And when I read the Witches’ Tanabata I saw even more room for interpretations opening up. But I spare you with this for now as this WILL get a longer topic. ^^

          Also “Beato = the culprit” doesn’t work at all for EP5 where she has more the role of an invisible servant then anything.

          It’s far to early to call things ‘obvious’ in this tale by this author. :P
          (Think back to my Higurashi comparison: so many “obvious” facts add out all the wrong way.
          E.g. Mions/Shions motives, the “drugs” idea, the possessed people, the many conspiracy brought up by all the people (incl. totally ridiculous but almost fitting ones ^^) and Rikas prophetic abilities vs. her being a miko, the ‘people don’t stay dead’ herring etc. etc.)

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